Help from those with live view please

waffley · 30-12-2008, 11:09 PM

First off I hope everyone had a lovely Christmas.
Secondly, you may remember I was asking your advice with regard to buying a DSLR with my Rheumatoid Arthritis.
Well after a lot of consideration, and visits to various camera retailers, I have decided that for value for money against weight and ease of use, I will almost certainly go for a Sony, either the A200 or A300.
Initially I thought the A200 would be fine, but then I wondered if Live view is an aid to taking macros. The reason I ask, is that I can no longer kneel down, and a lot of summer photography for me is of dragonflies. If Live view means I can get better images, then it will be worth the extra to get the A300 - if not, then I may have some cash towards another lens.
Your views would be very welcome.
Many thanks
Waffley

loz · 30-12-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffley

I wondered if Live view is an aid to taking macros. The reason I ask, is that I can no longer kneel down, and a lot of summer photography for me is of dragonflies.

I think the Sony Live View would certainly be an aid to framing and composing your pictures in those circumstances, but there's no specific feature of it that would help with regard to macro such as helping you get the focus right (which is typically the challenge with macro). You would have to trust the autofocus system for that.

But if you simply want to be able to use the camera with your arms outstretched so you don't have to bend down, at least you would know exactly where the lens is pointing.

iGiDK · 30-12-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffley

Initially I thought the A200 would be fine, but then I wondered if Live view is an aid to taking macros. The reason I ask, is that I can no longer kneel down, and a lot of summer photography for me is of dragonflies.

In my opinion, live view is an excellent aid for macro as it allows more precise manual focusing - great when you have a static subject and camera support!

However I do feel that you would have to be quite close to the screen in order to actually see the benefits of this precise focusing, so I'm not sure if you'd still be inhibited slightly.

RobDickinson · 30-12-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loz

You would have to trust the autofocus system for that.

No you wouldnt, vast majority of macro is done using manual focus, with live view zoomed in 10 * its a great aid to maco work.

loz · 30-12-2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobDickinson

No you wouldnt, vast majority of macro is done using manual focus, with live view zoomed in 10 * its a great aid to maco work.

err, not on a sony it isn't - you can't zoom their live view. Hence why I made the point.

RobDickinson · 30-12-2008, 11:31 PM

Ah how, uh, archaic.

waffley · 30-12-2008, 11:40 PM

Thanks Loz and iGiDK. It seems as though live view isn't going to be the answer I thought it may be then!
Certainly being able to stretch my arms rather than kneeling would be a start as Loz suggests, but then I do take on board the point made by iGiDK about needing to be close to the screen.
Decisions decisions!! The Sony cashback offer ends tomorrow so I really have to make a make my mind up soon!! Or leave it a while and hope the prices fall!
Thank you again

Pirate!! · 30-12-2008, 11:47 PM

Maybe this might help.

Pirate!! · 30-12-2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobDickinson

Ah how, uh, archaic.

A similar system was used on the Olympus E330.

Holowlegs · 30-12-2008, 11:55 PM

Just a quick question that may help.

Do Sony do an angle view finder ?

Cheers Holo

Pirate!! · 30-12-2008, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holowlegs

Just a quick question that may help.

Do Sony do an angle view finder ?

Cheers Holo

Sony FDA-A1AM.AE

It costs a bit, so unless there is a generic or Minolta version . . . .

This is a list of dSLR's with LV (American site).

waffley · 31-12-2008, 12:06 AM

If the live view cost was only £20 or so I wouldn't hesitate, but for £100 I really have to be sure it will do what I need it to do.
I think I will need to drag my husband to Jessops tomorrow and spend a long time playing with the live view.
I am hopeless at making decisions - and please don't anyone say 'typical woman!'

ryart · 31-12-2008, 2:22 AM

Sympathies about the arthritis.
I think live-view could be very useful provided the LCD screen tilts and you can zoom in live-view for focusing. One camera that might be useful in your situation is the new Panasonic G1. The snags are high price, relatively small sensor and as yet limited range of lenses. Might be worth a play if for no other reason than to see if the articulated screen and ability to zoom in to focus helps you.

loz · 31-12-2008, 9:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate!!

A similar system was used on the Olympus E330.

Actually the E330 was quite different as it offered a "best of both worlds" approach.

It has a 2nd live view sensor that operates like the Sony - but like the Sony provides no zoom

But it also does live view off the main sensor as well - and in that mode like the Canon/Nikons offers 10x zoom, which is of great assistance to any macro focusing.

Pity that Olympus didn't continue that design feature.

springtide · 31-12-2008, 9:53 AM

I also can sympathies with people with arthritis. I worked for many years with a guy for suffered from an early age. Very painful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobDickinson

Ah how, uh, archaic.

It's another one of those long arguments, which system is the better.

The Canon/Nikon does it via the main sensor - meaning it's full resolution but can be zoomed in to aid manual focusing. On the downside the Nikon/Canon systems cannot use the cameras main AF for focusing (it either has to move the mirror to focus, or use 'contrast focusing' off the sensor.)

The Sony system uses a second sensor - meaning that the Liveview image CANNOT be zoomed in to the full resolution, but AF is done via the cameras main AF sensors. The reason why Sony added the second sensor was so that the 'camera performs' exactly the same in LV mode as when looking through the viewfinder. i.e. AF speed, shutter speed etc. Also due to the second sensor, the viewfinder is a little smaller.

If you want to use LV for macro then the Canon/Nikon system is better. If you want to use LV like you did on your point and shoot, the Sony system is better as you get proper AF.
I guess Sony went this route as they see themselves as the vendor who will have users coming over from point and shoot.
I think the Sony screens do swivel which would be a bonus if you could live with AF focusing rather than manual in LV. Angle Finders also work very well, but I can still see you having to kneel down to get the shot.

Well I still don't have LV. I have 'Intelligent Preview' on the A900 which I can see being useful for adjustments of exposure for landscapes etc, but time will tell how much I'll use it.

waffley · 31-12-2008, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryart

Sympathies about the arthritis.
I think live-view could be very useful provided the LCD screen tilts and you can zoom in live-view for focusing. One camera that might be useful in your situation is the new Panasonic G1. The snags are high price, relatively small sensor and as yet limited range of lenses. Might be worth a play if for no other reason than to see if the articulated screen and ability to zoom in to focus helps you.

I agree that G1 could be the one for me, if only the price were not so high

Perhaps I should wait in the hope that prices will tumble in the next few months when its successor is released.
If I can find one to play with today I will give it a go!
Thank you

waffley · 31-12-2008, 10:15 AM

Thanks Springtide.
I will go and play and then think some more.
The way my knees feel today I am beginning to go back to the idea of the Panny FZ28 ........Sorry feeling a bit of a misery today

Will let you all know how I get on.
Thank you everyone

springtide · 31-12-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffley

Thanks Springtide.
I will go and play and then think some more.
The way my knees feel today I am beginning to go back to the idea of the Panny FZ28 ........Sorry feeling a bit of a misery today

Will let you all know how I get on.
Thank you everyone

NP.

Not sure whether you use these already, but B&Q sell 'knee pads' for DIY.

Basically you attach them to make 'spending hours on your knees' a little less painful.

Not exactly camera advice and you may already be doing this, but thought it might be worth a mention

waffley · 31-12-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springtide

NP.

Not sure whether you use these already, but B&Q sell 'knee pads' for DIY.

Basically you attach them to make 'spending hours on your knees' a little less painful.

Not exactly camera advice and you may already be doing this, but thought it might be worth a mention

Thanks for the thought, but I'm afraid I physically can't kneel down and when I do get on the ground (in general by falling!!) I can't get up!! I'm a bit of a problem really

Thank you again
Waffley

Pirate!! · 31-12-2008, 10:34 AM

I know this is a long shot, but if you could get hold of a Sony DSC-R1, it might just be the one. I know it's not made any more, but it's a prosumer camera with 5x optical zoom that has LV with a CMOS sensor (same as most DSLR's).

It's basically the best of the bridge/prosumer type (even by today's standards it's way up there). Some owner reviews here.

I have no idea where you might source one.

pixelpixel · 31-12-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate!!

I know this is a long shot, but if you could get hold of a Sony DSC-R1, it might just be the one. I know it's not made any more, but it's a prosumer camera with 5x optical zoom that has LV with a CMOS sensor (same as most DSLR's).

It's basically the best of the bridge/prosumer type (even by today's standards it's way up there). Some owner reviews here.

I have no idea where you might source one.

Ahhhh the amazing R1. I have a H7 which was a replacement for the R range. The best out of the H range is the cracking H9. Its got the best live view I have ever seen. Its like the Canon stuff in terms that it folds out and also acts like the normal Sony tilt stuff.

The only issue I have with the bridge range of cameras is the fixed lens issues. Sony has problems working out filter sizes and the H range has one of the stranges filter sizes I have ever seen thats 77mm.

I still think a monopod is the way to go

Pirate!! · 31-12-2008, 11:44 AM

Good shout PixelPixel. That slipped the grey cells! In that case, maybe a trip here to view both H10 and H50 wouldn't hurt.

The H50 is available here for £219.99 with 2 years warranty.

This is a useful insight and review.

It isn't perfect (what is), but it's certainly in the OP's price range and affords a lot of features and functions that would appear to be on the list of requirements.

loz · 31-12-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate!!

It isn't perfect (what is), but it's certainly in the OP's price range and affords a lot of features and functions that would appear to be on the list of requirements.

I can't say I would recommend a bridge camera to anyone looking at a DSLR.

Sure they might have lots of features, but in comparison, image quality is lacking.

I think the Panasonic G1 might be the best compromise of flexible, articulated live view and DSLR image quality. But even then cost and lens options reduce its appeal.

pixelpixel · 31-12-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loz

I can't say I would recommend a bridge camera to anyone looking at a DSLR.

Sure they might have lots of features, but in comparison, image quality is lacking.

I think the Panasonic G1 might be the best compromise of flexible, articulated live view and DSLR image quality. But even then cost and lens options reduce its appeal.

Its kept me happy for a bit

Just some of my images from my very handy camera.

All using the live view feature

I still think the H9 has the best live view on any camera I have seen. Thats only IMO.

Pirate!! · 31-12-2008, 12:41 PM

I know what you're saying, but the OP made reference to looking at the FZ 28, so with pixelpixel also suggesting the H9, it'll be up to the OP to decide in any case, and the H10 and H50 are two more that could be looked at and considered.

G1 is too expensive, Olympus viewfinder is too small. Sure they share the 4/3 mount. So what's left? There are clearly overiding requirements here above brand. I'm sure a desicion will be made, but lets all give the OP all the ammunition so an unbiased informed choice can be made.

I know we would all look at brand X, model Y, but the OP has bigger issues to deal with that I'm not sure any camera will be able to provide all requirements to meet the need.

pixelpixel · 31-12-2008, 1:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate!!

I know what you're saying, but the OP made reference to looking at the FZ 28, so with pixelpixel also suggesting the H9, it'll be up to the OP to decide in any case, and the H10 and H50 are two more that could be looked at and considered.

G1 is too expensive, Olympus viewfinder is too small. Sure they share the 4/3 mount. So what's left? There are clearly overiding requirements here above brand. I'm sure a desicion will be made, but lets all give the OP all the ammunition so an unbiased informed choice can be made.

I know we would all look at brand X, model Y, but the OP has bigger issues to deal with that I'm not sure any camera will be able to provide all requirements to meet the need.

Well said......Maybe 1 day I will buy you a drink

Pirate!! · 31-12-2008, 1:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelpixel

Well said......Maybe 1 day I will buy you a drink

Maybe . . . one day . .

waffley · 31-12-2008, 6:28 PM

Thank you to everyone for their help, suggestions and advice. I went to Jessops and with my husband.s advice and some playing I came home with a Sony A300.
All I have to do now is learn how to use it!
Thank you again, and a Happy New Year to you all

ajex · 31-12-2008, 7:07 PM

@WAFFLEY!!!

congratulations!!!

Getting Gary Friedman's book would be starting point to leverage your investment!!!

cheers

Ajex

pixelpixel · 31-12-2008, 9:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffley

Thank you to everyone for their help, suggestions and advice. I went to Jessops and with my husband.s advice and some playing I came home with a Sony A300.
All I have to do now is learn how to use it!
Thank you again, and a Happy New Year to you all

Look forward to you posting some stunning pictures.