[chrism_scotland]

I've been looking for a new camera and after realising that the current successor to my FZ7 the FZ28 is £250+ I've started looking into getting a DSLR instead, namely looking the the Nikon D40, Nikon D60 and Sony A200, although I also saw an Olympus (e410D) I think which looked nice.

I'm just a bit confused and to be honest I don't really know where to start with a DSLR, obviously if I buy a Superzoom like the FZ28 or S8100 then thats it you use the camera and likely eventually upgrade.
But I understand that with a DSLR I can change the lenses to match what sort of photography I want to take, but my query is with the lens kit that actually comes with the camera am I limited in what sort of photographs I can take?

I don't really understand the different lenses beyond wide angle or zoom to be honest and I just could do with some help to clarify in my mind what I can / cannot do with a DSLR.

I know the D40 and D60 are excellent cameras from photos I have seen and the size doesn't put me off as they are not much larger than the FZ28 or my old FZ7, any help would be great!

Chris

[dazza74]

You simply buy the D-SLR and then decide what type of photography interests you the most. I started with an 18-70mm kit lens when I realised at the zoo I didn't have sufficient zoom to take close up pictures of the animals I bought the 70-300mm VR. Fancied getting into flower photography so bought the 90mm 2.8 macro lens.

That's the beauty of D-SLR you add the lenses based on the photography you wish to acheive.

[Yandros]

The kit lens zoom range will do you for most walkabout photography.

They normally focus down to 1-2ft, so they're no good for closeup work, and they're no use for wildlife/sports etc.

The most common lens purchases after a kit lens are:

Long zoom eg 55-200mm, 70-300mm or even longer for serious wildlife photogrpahy

Macro lenses eg Tamron 90mm f2.8, Nikon 105mm f2.8VR etc for single flowers, bugs etc

Superwide eg 10-20mm, 12-24mm for buildings and some landscape stuff

Low light lenses eg f1.4-f2.8 zooms or primes.

[chrism_scotland]

Again stupid query but if i'm looking for decent low light performance so i can take shots out and about the stock lens should do me for a bit? I just don't want to buy say a D60 and suddenly find I instantly need another lens.

[mark1000]

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

Again stupid query but if i'm looking for decent low light performance so i can take shots out and about the stock lens should do me for a bit? I just don't want to buy say a D60 and suddenly find I instantly need another lens.

Chris, your going to need more than just the kit lens with any DSLR you decide to buy if you want to replicate the range you had with your FZ7.


Mark.

[chrism_scotland]

Thats cool Mark I understand that especially in terms of zoom as i know a standard lens is nothing like one of the superzoom cameras and thats certainly something I would invest in is a long zoom lens just maybe not right away.

[mark1000]

Originally Posted by mark1000

Chris, your going to need more than just the kit lens with any DSLR you decide to buy if you want to replicate the range you had with your FZ7.


Mark.

The stock lens ( kit lens ) you get shouldn't give you any problems with low light photos as your going to able to use higher ISO to get the shutter speed you require, but the kit lens you get depends on the camera you choose, but you should be ok whatever one you pick.


Mark.

[Pirate!!]

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

I've been looking for a new camera and after realising that the current successor to my FZ7 the FZ28 is £250+ I've started looking into getting a DSLR instead, namely looking the the Nikon D40, Nikon D60 and Sony A200, although I also saw an Olympus (e410D) I think which looked nice.

I'm just a bit confused and to be honest I don't really know where to start with a DSLR, obviously if I buy a Superzoom like the FZ28 or S8100 then thats it you use the camera and likely eventually upgrade.
But I understand that with a DSLR I can change the lenses to match what sort of photography I want to take, but my query is with the lens kit that actually comes with the camera am I limited in what sort of photographs I can take?

I don't really understand the different lenses beyond wide angle or zoom to be honest and I just could do with some help to clarify in my mind what I can / cannot do with a DSLR.

I know the D40 and D60 are excellent cameras from photos I have seen and the size doesn't put me off as they are not much larger than the FZ28 or my old FZ7, any help would be great!

Chris

Ahoy!

I was that man! I had the FZ3 . . . a long time before your FZ7, and only just sold it BTW. I would keep the FZ7 either for the wife/girlfriend, or plonk it on Amazon (i got almost as much for my FZ3 as I did for my Sony A100). Mad or what?

FWIW, for your budget, I would consider anything up to 2 years old in the dSLR market. The probelm is that the options are quite varied, and depending on how you want to shoot (low light or general daylight), so are better than others. Then there is the lens/body stabilisation issue. Some prefer in-lens, others in-body. The cost difference of that alone is staggering!

Not to tell you what to buy, but as an example, in the AVF Classifieds are:

Canon 350d and another here

Nikon D70

Samsung GX-10 (Takes Pentax K-Mount lenses) my pick anyway

All for £300.00 or under and all worthy of consideration.

And of course there is the Sony Alpha A200 (new) for way under £300.00 (if you shop cannily). Sony are doing a £30.00 casback offer until end of December on A200.

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

Again stupid query but if i'm looking for decent low light performance so i can take shots out and about the stock lens should do me for a bit? I just don't want to buy say a D60 and suddenly find I instantly need another lens.

No, the kit lens will do for the vast majority of shots - that's why they supply them

Cameras like the Nikon D60 come with a choice of kit lens. There's a version with vibration reduction built in, which makes it better in low light, as long as the subject isn't moving (for example a museum exhibit). The A200 of course stabilises all lenses for free! If you want to take photos of moving subjects in low light, you may find eventually that you'll want to shell out 200-300 quid on a 'fast' prime or zoom, but I DEFINITELY wouldn't advise you get one for starters if you're not sure of your requirements.

For what it's worth, I'd say the A200+kit lens or D60+18-55VR (ie the vibration reduction version) are your best options.

[dazza74]

Something else to consider maybe is to buy the D60 body on it's own and use the money saved to put towards a tamron 17-50 2.8 it's an option worth considering as you'll get a 2.8 lens which would help with low light photography it will also double as a resonable lens for portraits and will autofocus. As you may be aware with the D60 if you buy the popular 50 1.8 you'll only have manual focus.

[tasman]

You can get the Sony A200 for £217 after cashback on Amazon today. Heaps of change then left to spend on lenses, including a whole swag of second hand Minolta ones that will be stabilised with the Sony.

[Pirate!!]

Originally Posted by tasman

You can get the Sony A200 for £217 after cashback on Amazon today. Heaps of change then left to spend on lenses, including a whole swag of second hand Minolta ones that will be stabilised with the Sony.

There endeth the lesson

[andrew markwort]

I would keep the FZ7 either for the wife/girlfriend

Yes, being women they can't possibly want anything better ...

Getting back on topic - the easiest thing to do in starting with an SLR/DSLR is to get swamped with theory before you've tried the thing in practice. A basic DSLR kit will give you a camera body and an all-purpose lens (for want of a better term, it will work like a typical compact camera, only a bit better). I'd suggest using it for a few weeks and get used to it before deciding what you need next. If you find you're having problems getting all of the subject into the shot, then you need a wide angle lens. If you find that what you're trying to photograph is still too small in your pictures, then you need a longer distance lens. However, if you do need a long zoom, then you will also need a tripod - it is extremely difficult to hold a heavy long zoom lens sufficiently steady to take shots at the extreme of its range without getting camera shake (even with the corrective technology in many of today's cameras).

As for which camera to buy - it's very easy to get suckered by various technical claims. Generally, the more you pay, the better you get, but it's a case of diminishing returns. E.g. a £200 lens will be a lot better than a £50 Hong Kong special, but don't expect a £500 lens to be better than the £200 lens by the same margin. The more you pay, the smaller the improvement over the immediately lower model.

Also, don't go overboard on the camera body. The more expensive the DSLR, the more gizmos you'll get, but ask yourself this - just how often are you going to use the extra facilities? Generally, the cheaper the models, the easier they are to use. And don't fall for the trap of thinking the more expensive ones are necessarily better made. The more gizmos they have in them, the more there is to go wrong.

One final thing - don't forget to buy a decent software photo package (e.g. Photoshop Essentials). This will enable you to rescue potentially better photos that are slightly under- or over-exposed, slightly mis-framed, etc. Plus, you can then have great fun playing with the colour balance, level of grain, etc.

[Pirate!!]

Originally Posted by andrew markwort

Yes, being women they can't possibly want anything better

I wasn't being sexist . . . 'her indoors' loved the FZ3 . . . she went ballistic when she found out it was sold . . . . Looking for an alternative with a large LCD now . . . I can't do right for doing wrong!

[chrism_scotland]

Cheers folks i guess i need toy decide between a low end dslr like the D60 or a high end superzoom like the FZ28 or Fuji S2000 which has had good review's. To be honest as its so long since I had my FZ7 I no longer know what sort of photography I would do probably mainly landscapes body buildings as Edinburgh where I now live is a beautiful city. I may be better off with a super zoom or compact for that though. Although long term i feel i would be better with a dslr to be able to upgrade.

[senu]

All the ( I have to say rather helpful) posts on this thread so far are sayin one thing in different ways

Just Get a DSLR if size doesnt bother you. They are all "tiny" these days anyway.
Cost isnt really a factor any longer
Also as stated above dont get bogged down my techno speak. They are only image capturing devicesin the end. it is your use and growing competence that will get the best out of them
My personal opinion is that Non DSLRs will always be playing catchup for absolute quality , no matter how well made they are. Mind you thihisiant "dissing them, even Seasoned enthusisats have Non DSLRs but usually not as ther mian camera

It doesnt have to be the D60 ...or D40 or Sony .. None by any of the brands will be a let down

I had a Fuji 602 which I though was the bee kness until I saw pictures taken at an identical time with the than Canon 300D. Clean sharp noise free..
The fuji took an early retitrement
I know Non DSLRs have moved on but simple physics will always dictate that the are astep behind even entry level DSLRs. Also hight cost is no longer a reason to feel you arer paying too much for what you wont use


Why dont you just go into Jessops, Take a card take a few Pics and " lose the fear" .
The fact hat the kit lens may not " Zoom " enough to start with may mean that you mostly used lens will be a Zoom . There are very affordable Zoom lenses anyway

I would go back to that link I gave you on DSLR lessson 101
My suspicion is that if you dont get one, you will always hanker after it tillyou get it.
Evenif you dont know alot when you first get it.. You will grow with it

[chrism_scotland]

Originally Posted by senu

All the ( I have to say rather helpful) posts on this thread so far are sayin one thing in different ways

Just Get a DSLR if size doesnt bother you. They are all "tiny" these days anyway.
Cost isnt really a factor any longer
Also as stated above dont get bogged down my techno speak. They are only image capturing devicesin the end. it is your use and growing competence that will get the best out of them
My personal opinion is that Non DSLRs will always be playing catchup for absolute quality , no matter how well made they are. Mind you thihisiant "dissing them, even Seasoned enthusisats have Non DSLRs but usually not as ther mian camera

It doesnt have to be the D60 ...or D40 or Sony .. None by any of the brands will be a let down

I had a Fuji 602 which I though was the bee kness until I saw pictures taken at an identical time with the than Canon 300D. Clean sharp noise free..
The fuji took an early retitrement
I know Non DSLRs have moved on but simple physics will always dictate that the are astep behind even entry level DSLRs. Also hight cost is no longer a reason to feel you arer paying too much for what you wont use


Why dont you just go into Jessops, Take a card take a few Pics and " lose the fear" .
The fact hat the kit lens may not " Zoom " enough to start with may mean that you mostly used lens will be a Zoom . There are very affordable Zoom lenses anyway

I would go back to that link I gave you on DSLR lessson 101
My suspicion is that if you dont get one, you will always hanker after it tillyou get it.
Evenif you dont know alot when you first get it.. You will grow with it

I think you've hit the nail on the head there really to be honest, I'm concerned about spending £200+ on a bridge camera like the FZ28 and then finding that I'd rather have bought a DSLR, if I was worried about size I would buy a TZ5 compact probably (would love the LX3 but a bit pricey!) and when looking at the D40/D60 yesterday even with the lens on they are little larger than the FZ28 or Fuji S2000 in fact one of the Fuji bridge cameras was even bigger!

I did notice yesterday that they had an Olympus DSLR for roughly the same money as the D60 albeit it was a twin lens kit, I believe it was the E-410 am I right in thinking that the Olympus is on of the Four Thirds cameras?

[mark1000]

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

I think you've hit the nail on the head

I did notice yesterday that they had an Olympus DSLR for roughly the same money as the D60 albeit it was a twin lens kit, I believe it was the E-410 am I right in thinking that the Olympus is on of the Four Thirds cameras?

Yes its a 4/3 system.

Mark.

[chrism_scotland]

Thanks again Mark it just seemed good value for a twin lens kit and the slightly smaller size would be a plus.

[mark1000]

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

Thanks again Mark it just seemed good value for a twin lens kit and the slightly smaller size would be a plus.

Chris, i really don't envy you trying to choose a camera when there are so many considerations in making your decision.

Maybe you should make a list of what you think your going to use the camera for and think about size of camera, after all you may well want a camera on you at all times but not want to be bogged down with a bag full of lens, i have been following this thread and noted that you have looked at all sorts of camera types/sizes and just think you should write that list and then go and see the camera's on it and then decide.



Mark.

[dazza74]

I think the olympus E-420 might be a better bet

[chrism_scotland]

Well Im going to have a good think about what I want I had a look at the cameras in Jessops today and even though my old FZ7 was certainly no compact I was a bit put off by the size of the D60 I worry that I would never take it out and it's a lot of cash if I'm not using t.
Size is something that has made me look at the Olympus as the 3/4 cameras look a nice size and he twin lens kit available seems good value on a low budget.
My only real concern which is something I've discussed before is lack of image stabilization.
Right now I'm close to just buying he FZ28 I just have a fear I would regret it long term.
For a DSLR I am leaning toward the e410 or the D40 partly due to cost and size as I see them as a compromise, not too expensive that I would regret t if I end up using them just for day to day photography but also a food stepping stone as I would be planing on upgrading to something better if I get hooked anyway!

[senu]

A lot of people learn not to have IS ( It can be a crutch)
and
The D 60 may be big compared to the F27 but its pictured show its notbig for nothing
How often do you actually take completely unplanned pictures even with the f27?
There is a disease call " purchase inertia" usually due to reading too many reviews
Avoid it and get shooting. There is no perfect camera out there but a lot can be made to fit one aspirations

[Bristol Pete]

Take a long hard look at the Panny G1.

seriously lovely camera. Bridge in size, but the essence of DSLR. Fast, two focusing systems for still life and movement. Very good ISO based on the micro 4/3rds chip set. Excellent geometry. Feels superb in the hand. AI mode if you want quick snaps and full manual control when needed.

It really is a lovely camera and could be just the ticket for you. I rate it highly and it is better than all of the OLY DSLR range aside from the flagship E3.

I hope to review it soon.

Hope this helps.

Pete.

[mark1000]

Originally Posted by Bristol Pete

Take a long hard look at the Panny G1.

seriously lovely camera. Bridge in size, but the essence of DSLR. Fast, two focusing systems for still life and movement. Very good ISO based on the micro 4/3rds chip set. Excellent geometry. Feels superb in the hand. AI mode if you want quick snaps and full manual control when needed.

It really is a lovely camera and could be just the ticket for you. I rate it highly and it is better than all of the OLY DSLR range aside from the flagship E3.

I hope to review it soon.

Hope this helps.

Pete.

Sound advice, but i have to say that really as i own one


Mark.


PS. Pete, do you have a G1, look forward to you opinion.

[chrism_scotland]

I would already have bought a G1 if I could afford it!
It looks a really nice camera and I would love to get one, as it seems nicely specced and the size is just nice, feels good in the hand!
Its just a wee bit out of price range, its the G1 that has made me look at the cheaper Olympus as the size is almost exactly the same as my old FZ7
I think Senu is right I'm unlikely to regret anything that I buy be it a Bridge camera or a DSLR, but I do want to make sure I don't think in 3-4 months I wish I'd bought a DSLR rather than bridge.

[mark1000]

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

I would already have bought a G1 if I could afford it!
It looks a really nice camera and I would love to get one, as it seems nicely specced and the size is just nice, feels good in the hand!
Its just a wee bit out of price range, its the G1 that has made me look at the cheaper Olympus as the size is almost exactly the same as my old FZ7
I think Senu is right I'm unlikely to regret anything that I buy be it a Bridge camera or a DSLR, but I do want to make sure I don't think in 3-4 months I wish I'd bought a DSLR rather than bridge.

Chris did you know that jessops have reduced the G1 to £489, i know its a load of cash but its worth it IMO.

Mark.

[chrism_scotland]

I didn't know that, if I could stretch I would, I'm already stretching when looking at the D60 or E410, I'm just looking to get the best basis to start with as I know it could be some time before I can upgrade my kit for a new lens etc (or a load of overtime!)
I've picked up the What Digital Camera Guide today and it seems the D40 and D60 are highly reccomended as is the G1 and e420, I think I could live without image stabilisation to be honest, if I but the e410 it would likely be as a stop gap while I save for something else, although that would limit my options as I know the 4/3 lenses will not fit a standard DSLR.

[chrism_scotland]

Ok, just wanted to pick the brains of the experts on here again, with my limitation of around £280, I'm looking for a decent camera for night time shots, landscape shots and general walk around, without me worrying about reviews or anything I have seen what would be the best Bridge or DSLR for the job within that price range.

[mark1000]

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

Ok, just wanted to pick the brains of the experts on here again, with my limitation of around £280, I'm looking for a decent camera for night time shots, landscape shots and general walk around, without me worrying about reviews or anything I have seen what would be the best Bridge or DSLR for the job within that price range.

Sorry no expert but it has to be the Sony a200, biggest bang for buck IMO.

Full review, Highly recommended.


Sony Alpha DSLR-A200 Review: 31. Conclusion: Digital Photography Review

Mark.