[5to1]

Hi,

If the (Newbie) in the title hasn't already alerted you, I've just stumbled into the world of DSLR photography. I do have a background in embedded design so have an understanding of some of the underlying tech. I'm also used to having to research terms/acronyms/etc so you don't have to dumb down the tech side too much for me (I'm happy to go figure out what I don't understand from your posts). Any articles/guides you can point me to would be greatly appreciated aswell.

Anyway back to my question. I've recently come back from Safari in the Mara and along with my partner have decided its the type of holiday we will be aiming to do in the future (already planning a few more). We had planned to borrow my Aunts camera, however my idiotic cousin didn't drop it off in time, so were stuck with our compact. Thats prompted us to decide its time to join the DSLR brigade. Although the compact performed "ok" initially, low light shots and limited zoom were very frustrating.

I've been reading the posts here and revies on dpreview.com to narrow down my choices. And so far the D90 is standing out. Its within the budget we set aside, although I need advice on starter lenses to be sure of that. The sample pictures i've seen look good to my eye. The ability to record video (I've read the limitations) is appealing as coming from a compact I really don't want to have the added bulk of a camcorder aswell. Both my brother (who will also use the camera) and I have a tendancy to "embrace" new hobbies (especially the tech aspect), which is why I haven't gone for a entry level camera.

So given the requirements, is this a good choice or are there others I should consider?

Any recommendations on glass I shoud consider a must have to begin with?

I'm going to spend the next month trying a few camera's in store. I will be buying next month which should allow me to take advantage of post XMAS sales. While also allowing me time to play/practice/learn before our next trip in July/Aug.

Advice much appreciated.

[dazza74]

D90 would be a good buy IMO and well worth getting as a kit so you also get the 18-105 VR lens (have a look at JoMike's recent pics for an endorsement of that). For safari you'll need some more zoom I feel so budget to also get the 70-300mm VR lens at least.

[jomike]

As Dazza says, the 18-105VR kit lens that comes with the D90 is a nice lens, sharp and the VR (Vibration Reduction) works well in conjunction with the D90's high ISO (sensitivity to light) capability to get nice sharp photos in low light. It is also a nice range for a walkaround (general purpose) lens.
For safari, you need the longest lens you can afford, 300mm is the minimum I would think, 500mm is better. The Sigma 150-500 OS is a favourite of bird photographers at a reasonable price. All the Nikons at this range are excellent but pricey. Tamron do a 200-500mm but it is not stabilised.

[5to1]

Originally Posted by dazza74

D90 would be a good buy IMO and well worth getting as a kit so you also get the 18-105 VR lens (have a look at JoMike's recent pics for an endorsement of that). For safari you'll need some more zoom I feel so budget to also get the 70-300mm VR lens at least.

I've just been looking at JoMikes thread, some excellent pics there.

In terms of lenses I assume VR would be a must as setting up a tripod may be difficult unless your prepared to mingle with the lions outside the jeep . I would also need a AF lens (unless I'm happy to do without AF), because from what I read Nikon don't include a motor in the body.

What kind of aperture range should I look for in the zoom lens? From an initial google f/4.5-5.6G seems to be common on the 70-300mm VR lenses.

Initially pricing seems to be around the ~£300 mark for the 70-300mm, and ~£700 for the kit. Hopefully Jan sales may yield some bargains, but worst case I can live with that.

[5to1]

Originally Posted by jomike

As Dazza says, the 18-105VR kit lens that comes with the D90 is a nice lens, sharp and the VR (Vibration Reduction) works well in conjunction with the D90's high ISO (sensitivity to light) capability to get nice sharp photos in low light. It is also a nice range for a walkaround (general purpose) lens.
For safari, you need the longest lens you can afford, 300mm is the minimum I would think, 500mm is better. The Sigma 150-500 OS is a favourite of bird photographers at a reasonable price. All the Nikons at this range are excellent but pricey. Tamron do a 200-500mm but it is not stabilised.

Some nice shots on your thread mike. I would probably put the Dino/E-Type/Miura SV joint top in my list though (although my list does change depending on which car I last saw in the flesh).

The Sigma 150-500 OS looks interesting. From what I've read I assume it has VR (?) and should AF with the D90? Pricing appears to be around the ~£600 mark, which makes it tempting when compared to the 70-300mm Nikons. Decision, decisions . Spend £300 on the 300mm and later spend another £600 on the 500mm. Or cough up even more now......

[denno75uk]

Originally Posted by 5to1

In terms of lenses I assume VR would be a must as setting up a tripod may be difficult unless your prepared to mingle with the lions outside the jeep . I would also need a AF lens (unless I'm happy to do without AF), because from what I read Nikon don't include a motor in the body.

What kind of aperture range should I look for in the zoom lens? From an initial google f/4.5-5.6G seems to be common on the 70-300mm VR lenses.

Initially pricing seems to be around the ~£300 mark for the 70-300mm, and ~£700 for the kit. Hopefully Jan sales may yield some bargains, but worst case I can live with that.

Don't worry about AF. This is only an issue with the D40 and D60. The D90's fine.
VR/OS/VC/IS are all the same thing, and whilst it may be beneficial, I would say that specifically for safari, it may not be essential. I would think it likely that the light will be strong enough to keep the shutter speed up, even at full zoom. With the D90, you can always bump the ISO with confidence. I suppose for animals in the shade it could come in handy, it's just if you (others) think you could get away without it, it opens up the options/budget a little. This of course all depends on whether you think you could hold the lens steady enough. A real whopper may be a bit difficult I guess.
Budget for the widest aperture you can afford, but with VR/high ISO then the standard f4-f6.3 range should be fine.
Another option may be to rent a decent lens specifically for the trip. grantsteve had a thread about this a few weeks ago and found somewhere with an excellent range and not a huge amount of cash. Not compared to the cost of the lens outright anyway.

[5to1]

Originally Posted by denno75uk

Don't worry about AF. This is only an issue with the D40 and D60. The D90's fine.
VR/OS/VC/IS are all the same thing, and whilst it may be beneficial, I would say that specifically for safari, it may not be essential. I would think it likely that the light will be strong enough to keep the shutter speed up, even at full zoom. With the D90, you can always bump the ISO with confidence. I suppose for animals in the shade it could come in handy, it's just if you (others) think you could get away without it, it opens up the options/budget a little. This of course all depends on whether you think you could hold the lens steady enough. A real whopper may be a bit difficult I guess.
Budget for the widest aperture you can afford, but with VR/high ISO then the standard f4-f6.3 range should be fine.
Another option may be to rent a decent lens specifically for the trip. grantsteve had a thread about this a few weeks ago and found somewhere with an excellent range and not a huge amount of cash. Not compared to the cost of the lens outright anyway.

Renting may be a good idea. Although as a newbie the advantage of buying is I can use any spare moment to familiarise myself with the quirks of the lens. Other problem is, I may not want to give it back once I've had a chance to play with it, which may end up being very expensive

Not having to worry about AF lenses with the D90 is a plus. I had assumed VR would a be a must shooting with high zoom resting on a jeep. But I guess a wider apeture would also mean the shot would be taken quicker, so theres a trade of there. This sounds like its going to be a fun/frustrating hobby, not to mention expensive

[5to1]

Also should have mentioned the reason I'm concerned about low light ability is two fold. Firstly as Denno suggests you may find many animals in bushes, shelter, etc. Secondly many animals are more active early morning/dusk, the lions are a good example of this.

Also you get some striking vista's when the first rays of the sun creep over the horizon (or last rays at sunset).

[johnaalex]

Originally Posted by 5to1

In terms of lenses I assume VR would be a must as setting up a tripod may be difficult unless your prepared to mingle with the lions outside the jeep.

If you do go for a bigger zoom such as the Sigma 150-500 you might want to consider a monopod instead of a tripod. Mainly because the 150-500 is a heavy piece of kit. Also you can use it to fend off the lions

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by 5to1

Also should have mentioned the reason I'm concerned about low light ability is two fold. Firstly as Denno suggests you may find many animals in bushes, shelter, etc. Secondly many animals are more active early morning/dusk, the lions are a good example of this.

Also you get some striking vista's when the first rays of the sun creep over the horizon (or last rays at sunset).

Fortunately, VR (or OS in Sigma speak) does mean you can get away with reasonably low shutter speeds in poor light, as you're only worrying about subject movement, and not a shutter speed to steady the lens.

If you're going on one or two wildlife trips per year and you want even better low light performance, I'd suggest renting. For example, you'd have to use a Nikon 80-400VR for 20 weeks to justify buying over renting...

Nikon AF 80-400mm f 4 5-5 6 D ED VR

Other options would be one of the f2.8 zooms and a x1.4/x1.7 teleconvertor maybe.

[5to1]

Originally Posted by Yandros

Fortunately, VR (or OS in Sigma speak) does mean you can get away with reasonably low shutter speeds in poor light, as you're only worrying about subject movement, and not a shutter speed to steady the lens.

If you're going on one or two wildlife trips per year and you want even better low light performance, I'd suggest renting. For example, you'd have to use a Nikon 80-400VR for 20 weeks to justify buying over renting...

Nikon AF 80-400mm f 4 5-5 6 D ED VR

Other options would be one of the f2.8 zooms and a x1.4/x1.7 teleconvertor maybe.

That does make sense. Provided I don't like it so much I impulsively buy it .

I think I'll get the kit initially and possibly one zoom lens, so I can practice in my spare time. Anything else I'll probably rent as you suggest, unless I have a moment of madness

[5to1]

Originally Posted by johnaalex

If you do go for a bigger zoom such as the Sigma 150-500 you might want to consider a monopod instead of a tripod. Mainly because the 150-500 is a heavy piece of kit. Also you can use it to fend off the lions

I'm hoping to pop into the shops at the weekend so I can get a hands on feel of the camera and lenses. That should help me understand what I can reasonably manage and help balance the desire for huge zoom lenses

Although you are right, tripds and lenses can come in handy when defending yourself (provided your insured of course)

[Yandros]

A D90+18-105VR+70-300VR would be my suggestion as a great value enthusiast kit to get you up and running. Both lenses are light, and pretty much as sharp as money can buy.

You actually won't better the 70-300VR for sharpness, even with the multi-thousand quid lenses - they just get longer, and with wider apertures.

Although I've never been on safari, I'd probably hire the 80-400VR (or 70-200VR + 1.4 tele) and if I was going crazy, a 300mm f2.8VR and 1.7 teleconverter and a grab a cheap second body to avoid changing in the field.

[5to1]

Yandros, thats kind of what I'm leaning towards now. Although am tempted to go for the 150-500mm aswell.

I'm going to try and pop into jessops this weekend and have a play with the camera and lenses. Hopefully they will have everything instore.

Do they allow you to play with the kit? Thinking about taking a few memory cards along so I can take some shots and look at them at home.

Are they normally ok with this?

[johnaalex]

Originally Posted by 5to1

Do they allow you to play with the kit? Thinking about taking a few memory cards along so I can take some shots and look at them at home.

Are they normally ok with this?

I went to my local Jessops (Greenford, Middlesex) and they were happy to let me try lenses on my camera. That is were I tried the 150-500. Given the current problems they are likely to be facing I am sure they will do even more to try and clinch a sale - that may even include knocking a few quid off .

[5to1]

Originally Posted by johnaalex

I went to my local Jessops (Greenford, Middlesex) and they were happy to let me try lenses on my camera. That is were I tried the 150-500. Given the current problems they are likely to be facing I am sure they will do even more to try and clinch a sale - that may even include knocking a few quid off .

Didn't realise there was one in Greenford, alot closer then the Brent Cross one that I'd factored in my mind . May pop in one evening in that case, will probably be quiter aswell.

My sensible side is telling me to hold off untill Jan, as I wont get much time till after XMas, and prices are likely to drop then anyway. But I'll probably get the urge to buy straight away once I get one in hand

[senu]

Originally Posted by 5to1

Didn't realise there was one in Greenford, a lot closer then the Brent Cross one that I'd factored in my mind . May pop in one evening in that case, will probably be quiter aswell.

Its off the Greenford Road ( North Greenford) towards Sudbury Hill from the A40 in the large shopping park that has Hobby craft, Boots and a few other stores
Parking can get congested but nothing like Brent Cross
Having been more than a few time I have to say Ive found them ever so helpful and friendly and on occasion when I haven't bought from them its because they would not price match closely enough . There is a smaller one in Uxbridge too..
No parking whatsoever unless you park in the mall ( Chimes)

[5to1]

Originally Posted by senu

Its off the Greenford Road ( North Greenford) towards Sudbury Hill from the A40 in the large shopping park that has Hobby craft, Boots and a few other stores
Parking can get congested but nothing like Brent Cross
HAving been more tan a few time I have to say Ive found them ever so helpful and friendly and on occasionwhen I havent bought from them its because thay would price match closely enough . Theree is a smaller one in Uxbridge too..
No parking whatsoever unless you park inthe mall ( chimes)

Thanks, it does ring a bell now that you've mentioned it. Since I've never used it before, I just didn't think of it when I planned my trip.

Think I'll visit the Greenford one, Uxbridge is closer, but is usually a pain.

[leaky5]

Originally Posted by johnaalex

Also you can use it to fend off the lions

You could get one of these
Gitzo Monopod Spike
Wonder what the police would think if you did some urban togging with one of these on your monopod

[5to1]

Originally Posted by leaky5

You could get one of these
Gitzo Monopod Spike
Wonder what the police would think if you did some urban togging with one of these on your monopod

Only person I'm likely to hurt with that is myself

Can see myself sticking it in my hand or something.

[5to1]

Popped into Uxbridge today and had a quick play with the D90. Was very impressed and sorely tempted to buy

Few things held me back. The thought prices will fall in Jan. The unwrapping on the day factor (no matter how much you agree its an early present, as the birthday comes closer your tempted to buy something else anyway ).

Anyway back to the camera. First impressions were excellent, even before holding it in my hand. Aesthetically the design but particularly the materials on the Nikon stood out. Perhaps this is just my subconcious reinforcing my choice. But the plastics and materials stood out instantly as I browsed the display waiting for an assistant.

Having got it in my hand I was suprised how manageable it felt. Coming from a compact I'd always perceived SLR's to be unwieldy and ergonomically "challenging".

It had the standard kit lens on it which was excellent, and the camera felt very well weighted with it on. The viewer was excellent. The large high-res display really has the wow factor when you first see it.

I also looked at the Sigma 18-200 and Nikon 70-300 lens, which still felt manageable. I hadn't taken a SD card (spur of moment decision to drop in), so didn't want to trouble the assistant with swapping glass etc. Also might go to a bigger store where they have the larger glass in stock.

The dilema the assistant did raise was my glass selection. I had settled on the kit lens plus a 70-300mm thanks to the advice here. And the balance the kit lens provides is really appealing. But the assistant suggested I consider a 18-200mm lens as the range it offers means I would have less need to swap lens out in the field.

So now I'm torn between the kit + 70-300mm (possibly hiring bigger if needed). Or the Body + 18-200mm and the Sigma 150-500mm/hiring a larger lens when needed.

Not to mention fighting the urge to buy it now and do a second unwrap on my birthday

[5to1]

Forgot to mention, did take a few shots through the dark outside, and the low light performance is a revelation coming from a compact

[Yandros]

Heh, just don't handle a D300, or your credit card will hate you

I've got the Nikon 18-200VR, and it is handy as a walkaround, but to be honest, it's pretty rare that I need 18mm and 200mm in the same session. I'm very tempted actually to swap it for the 16-85VR and 70-300VR. The main reason I haven't is that I shoot more macro then telephoto, so my small 2 lens bag is the 18-200VR+105VR Macro...lugging 3 lenses is quite hard work.

Generally speaking you use 18-70mm for the vast majority of shots, and then wheel out the long lens for specialist stuff. Even for your safari shooting, an 18-200 will be of limited use as 200mm isn't really long enough for most wildlife, so you'd be shooting a landscape with an 18-200mm, and still have to swap to a 300mm+ lens animals and birds.

[jomike]

The 18-105VR kit lens is just as good, if not sharper as the 18-200VR (although not as well built) and a lot cheaper if bought as a kit. I would go with this, then add a tele zoom of your choice.

If you do go for the 150-500 Sigma with the kit, I doubt if you will notice the 105-150 gap either.

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by jomike

The 18-105VR kit lens is just as good, if not sharper as the 18-200VR (although not as well built) and a lot cheaper if bought as a kit. I would go with this, then add a tele zoom of your choice.

If you do go for the 150-500 Sigma with the kit, I doubt if you will notice the 105-150 gap either.

Mike, it's quite a lot sharper. The last test I saw rated the 18-105VR and 16-85VR on par, with the 18-200VR some way behind. The Sigma 18-200 OS is pretty much the same performance as the Nikon.

[5to1]

Originally Posted by Yandros

Heh, just don't handle a D300, or your credit card will hate you

Thanks for putting the D300 into my thoughts

[5to1]

I think you guys are probably right, the temptation to buy bigger is always great when in store.

Think I'll have a proper play over the weekend and will probably go with a kit initially.

[johnaalex]

Originally Posted by 5to1

Thanks for putting the D300 into my thoughts

The D300 will hook you quicker than crack cocaine.

My name is John - I am a D300 user.

[5to1]

Originally Posted by johnaalex

The D300 will hook you quicker than crack cocaine.

My name is John - I am a D300 user.

If I walk out of the shop with a D300, my bank manager will come looking for you

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by 5to1

I think you guys are probably right, the temptation to buy bigger is always great when in store.

Think I'll have a proper play over the weekend and will probably go with a kit initially.

Basically a Nikon 18-105VR+70-300VR combo will definitely get you better results than either of the 18-200 lenses (which are pretty soft at 200mm).