[blackstone]

In one Sentence "a good Camera does not make you a good photog" . Let us get off the merrygoround of ever new tech and leave that to the gadget show. The value of this site IMO is the opinion of a cross section of photog enthusiasts and not their kit. Not withstanding that there is a place for reviews etc but cannot that be seperate from the other topics.

[Gow87]

Well I haven't been here for long, but i would agree a "recommendations" section would be a good place for kit and would save trawling through threads looking for different things

[pixelpixel]

Good point.

Did anyone catch Annie Leibovitz - Life Through a Lens this week ? Well she is a master of the 35mm camera image. This is mainly a point and shoot thing, the fact that she tells a story rather than shows how fancy her images are.

Have a watch and enjoy

[Yandros]

Hmm, not quite sure what prompted this post. Actually this forum is one of the best I know for not being too tribal about brands, and not obsessing over kit. Virtually all the 'which DSLR' threads are dominated by "any will do the job, just buy the one you fancy and start taking pictures" type comments.

A quick count of the threads on page 1 right now shows about 50/50 tech vs technique. Considering that avforums is a pretty hardware oriented site in general, I don't think that's too bad.

[denno75uk]

I think you have to accept that this forum has found it's own balance based on the ideas and interest of the members who participate. Even the best artists on here get involved in the technology/gear side of posting, and some of the tech heads produce stunning shots. I think it's the mix that attracts us.
I don't mean this as an inflammatory comment, but if the forum isn't how you'd like, maybe you should try and find one that is more to your liking.

[mij]

I'll go and get me brownie out of the loft then

[johnaalex]

Originally Posted by Yandros

Hmm, not quite sure what prompted this post. Actually this forum is one of the best I know for not being too tribal about brands, and not obsessing over kit.

Just so long as it is Nikon...

[TarMoo]

A good camera does not make to a better photographer, but having good quality cameras and lenses does allow you to take better looking pictures.

There are a lot of good photos shown here from people with entry-level SLRs like the Nikon D40. However, I am sure when owners of these cameras upgrade to higher specced equipment that they do notice a difference.

There is a tradeoff between cost of equipment and quality of pictures. The law of diminishing returns applies here, where you can spend twice a much and maybe get a 20% improvement in quality.

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by johnaalex

Just so long as it is Nikon...

quite!

Actually I heard something quite interesting recently, that might explain the way we all tend to behave about our favourite brands.

Apparently the brain really doesn't like entertaining contradictory viewpoints. For example, although we agonise over whether to buy Canon, Nikon, Sony etc, once we've made the decision, the brain kinda shuts down all that process, and we move on. We really are mentally agonising, up to that point, because the brain is under stress juggling conflicting concepts. So we become narrow minded again, and justify our choice almost immediately to stop ourselves being driven nuts by intrusive "did I do the right thing" thoughts.

So semi-irrational brand loyalty is practically hard coded in our makeup.

[lloydy53]

Originally Posted by pixelpixel

Good point.

Did anyone catch Annie Leibovitz - Life Through a Lens this week ? Well she is a master of the 35mm camera image. This is mainly a point and shoot thing, the fact that she tells a story rather than shows how fancy her images are.

Have a watch and enjoy

Yes I did, she's a photographer I've long admired.

She was shown using simple camera's as well as top end tecno' wonders, proving the point that 'we' control the image, the technology controls, after 'we' set it, how that image is captured.

That excellent documentary was shown the same day I bought an old manual focus lens for the high tech camera I have, and that £20 lens on a £500 camera has reminded how I once used to spend time framing an image instead of clicking away at random and then choosing to keep the better shots.

I've still got my old Canon Ae1p and all the lenses, I reckon it's time I shoved some film ( remember that ? ) in it.

[senu]

I rather think we have a decent mix of kit, technique , Post procesing and simply posting photographs for posting
Many of the "Which Camera" type posts are first time posters here, some of who never come back, and some who then move on to "how do i use it?," and then actually post images
I dont think kit questions are out of place ( although i do find duplicate threads like the 400D vs D40 which were done to death a little tedious)

It is perhaps not a bad thing that the opinions of folk on here count for something but as Yandros has said all such posts encourage a "hands on" try as they are all capable ;I certainly post that a lot as I feel the search functions isnt used enough
Just to make the point, one of the longest running and most subscribed threads is not one about kit but the "Portrait, Inspiration" thread and the monthly come is very much about creativity rather than "which kit did you use

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Yandros: It's called cognitive dissonance and is a well researched phenomenon. If you look at just about any online forum you will see it in action, hahahaha...

I saw the Annie L thing at the cinema in March when it was released in UK. She has a talent.....

[Gow87]

I dont think the problems he's goin on about is technical discussions, but I do find it annoying having to scroll through picking out the posts i want. Why not have a subsection for recommendations and kit and one for photographs? Thatd be great as you could simply go where you want? As you've all mentioned there's a reason we're all here,theres some fantastic shots and some great advice on here! but it can be a little hard to find sometimes.

[TarMoo]

Originally Posted by Gow87

I dont think the problems he's goin on about is technical discussions, but I do find it annoying having to scroll through picking out the posts i want. Why not have a subsection for recommendations and kit and one for photographs? Thatd be great as you could simply go where you want? As you've all mentioned there's a reason we're all here,theres some fantastic shots and some great advice on here! but it can be a little hard to find sometimes.

I think Gow87 has a valid point. Perhaps there should be three sub-forums 1) Photographs, 2) Camera Hardware (including lenses, flash, tripods etc), and 3) Photo Editing. Then perhaps we wouldn't have the endless "what compact should I buy for £100" discussions.

[senu]

Originally Posted by TarMoo

I think Gow87 has a valid point. Perhaps there should be three sub-forums 1) Photographs, 2) Camera Hardware (including lenses, flash, tripods etc), and 3) Photo Editing. Then perhaps we wouldn't have the endless "what compact should I buy for £100" discussions.

It is and could be considered next time the there is a reorganisation but I would be interested in a more objective audit say of threads over 1 month to see what the various proportions are of these subtopics
There may be threads too which do not quite fit into any of the categories, then what?
It is not impossible to have an all round interest in Kit, technique, gallery threads and PP
Also time will come within PP when users of Mac + aperture might want a sub forum from PC
Or within Kit, The Nikon or Canon subforum
As things are now, there is nothing to stop you from posting to threads you have subscribed to by sing the search function, putting in your name, then scanning new ones
The mod have to read all the threads and creating subforums is likely to create more work..

[Gow87]

I agree its not an easy task organising old threads especially on a forum as large as this. But in the long run it makes for a much more user friendly forum. Not to mention photography is becoming a very very popular hobby so posts will only increase! I regularly visit the computers section and without all those subsections it would be chaos. I can imagine this area going the same way as more and more people join. just my 2p

[senu]

I broadly agree with your suggestions, however even the organisation you see with the computer section is fairly recent
And the area of computers is that wide, it had to happen sooner or later
Even if this was to be split up, I doubt if there would be much retrospective organising,
The setup of the forums is dynamic and any suggestions for change are welcome , indeed invited when change is proposed
What would be a negative outcome is for some forums to become "dead" due to lack of participation
The camcorders and video editing forums similarly has a disproportionate no of "which "cheap" camcorder" threads mixed with occasional.. software or troble shooting query and even less frequent technique one

[tontoshorse]

Originally Posted by senu

What would be a negative outcome is for some forums to become "dead" due to lack of participation
The camcorders and video editing forums similarly has a disproportionate no of "which "cheap" camcorder" threads mixed with occasional.. software or troble shooting query and even less frequent technique one

and that is a very good point.

i saw some positives on the suggestion of seperate catergories due to the number of posts which seem to flood in recently and the necessity of having to scroll through, however this forum is dynamic and the most useful information can be found in the most unlikely places.

Me? I like it just the way it is.

Its well rounded, robust and strangely addictive!

[SomeVorn]

Agree with mr Tontoshorse here, making different sections means you might miss out on certain discussions that you might find useful. I suppose they are always there but it wouldn't be the same.

The other option would be a number of stickies - combining some reputable members opinions on various camera bodies, point and shoot cameras listed by price or who they are aimed at. Eg D40/Sony A100/450D - entry level, below £400 budget. Small discussion on pros and cons but to some up - they are all quality cameras with good glass available so pick one (any to be honest). But they are plenty of review sites that do this job, it would seem that people asking for help prefer to have an almost instant reply from current members of this forum than go through review sites such as steves-digicams etc (one i used myself).

Stickies kind of defeat the point of the forum though, which is friendly advice or guidance through what has to be said, is a mind boggling subject for the inexperienced.

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by Gordon @ Convergent AV

Yandros: It's called cognitive dissonance and is a well researched phenomenon. If you look at just about any online forum you will see it in action, hahahaha...

Thanks Gordon . I couldn't remember the actual term.

Another vaguely interesting bit of trivia on a very similar subject.... We tend to make snap emotional buying decisions, and then intellectually justify this choice afterwards (filtering out any negatives). It's why when folks say I like the look of camera x, should I buy it?", unless it's an obviously dumb choice, the best response is "yes", because that's the one they've set their heart on.