[meansizzler]

Anyone use it, is there any point of having it if you have iphoto? and vice versa, what advantages do you get with it?, thinking about trying a demo...

[h4rri]

iPhoto and Aperture are completely different beasts, best advice is to try the trial and see how you get on with it. Put simply one [iPhoto] is for crops, resizes and minor tweaks, the other [Aperture] is a digital darkroom suite.

[sp3ctre]

I presume there is no point in Aperture if you have Photoshop?

[dfrear]

Can't comment on Aperture as I havent used it, but I imagine it's a little like Lightroom and I tend to use both Photoshop and Lightroom,

[Radiohead]

Originally Posted by sp3ctre

I presume there is no point in Aperture if you have Photoshop?

On the contrary - I think it's almost the opposite. Aperture offers you an end-to-end solution. Import, tag, add metadate, rate, manipulate, export, print, create slideshows for local and online use, create albums......Photoshop does some of this with Bridge, but in terms of one app to do multiple things Aperture and Lightroom take some beating.

I can't remember the last time I used CS3 now. CS3 is for design and graphics people and can be used by photographers. Aperture and Lightroom are designed for photographers from the ground up and it really shows.

[Garf]

I touched on this in a previous thread, and was advised to try both the Lightroom & Aperture trials.

I've just got my iMac, and am now intending to try both of these out.

However, after the 30 days, and I have picked a 'winner', how easy is it to remove the other product ? Can I run both at the same time ?

I am fairly sure I read that both of these (as well as iPhoto) can either just point at your existing folders or import the lot into their own libraries - is that right ?

Unless I am missing something, won't importing into an additional library immediately double the disk space required to store my photos ?

Sorry for all the questions,but hope that makes sense...

[meansizzler]

What about fireworks?, I use that instead of photoshop, so out of the ones below, which other ones would I need... ? I only resize Images, tag them, and plan on making some avatars/sigs, maybe a bit of photo manipulation... bare in mind I don't want to use photoshop


Photoshop
iphoto
Aperture


Also what is the performance like of Firworks CS3 on MAC?, it's a bit slow on windows, does photoshop CS3 perform better?

[meansizzler]

Originally Posted by Garf

Sorry for all the questions,but hope that makes sense...

Good questions have a look at my one above as you might be able to answer it...

Could someone make a comparison chart showing the main apps and what you can do in them.. so for Fireworks, Aperture, Lightroom, iphoto, photshop..

something like this but with the prodcuts listed above..

http://www.adobe.com/products/creati...te_family_home

[Peakoverload]

Think of it like this:

Photoshop, iPhotos and Fireworks are photo editing tools (strictly speaking Fireworks is a graphics editing tool). They let you change colours, crop, sharpen etc but also let you add text, add other images, add layers etc. On top of this they also have a RAW processing engine to process RAW images (except Fireworks).

Lightroom and Aperture are Digital Asset Managers which means that they let you create extensive catalogues/libraries of all your photos, add keywords and other metadata. They also allow have very powerful RAW processing engines and let you perform other editing functions like croping, rotating, adding vignettes etc. What they can't do is create montages from several images, use layers, do selective colouring, dodging, burning etc.

One of the biggest advantage of Aperture/Lightroom over Photoshop/iPhoto/Fireworks is that I can take one RAW file and create infinite varitions of it each with different exposures, colour balance, crops etc etc etc and not take up any more disc space. This is because the instructions on how to make this variations is simply stored in a database. To do the same in Photoshop etc would require seperate TIFF/JPEG files of each variation.

On top of that with Aperture/Lightroom you can use one image to export any number of new images all at different sizes, formats and compression rates all at the same time. You can do the same in Photoshop etc but it's not as elegant or straight forward.

Which do you need? Well that very much depends on what you need and want? If you don't need to catalogue your images and don't have any concerns over disc space then just use Photoshop/iPhoto etc. If however the flexibility of Aperture/Lightroom appeals to you then it is well worth checking them both out.

I used to use Photoshop CS2 exclusively, then Lightroom came out but I didn't like it but liked the idea behind it so tried Aperture and loved it. I now have Aperture 2 and CS3 but rarely have the need to use CS3 at all, in fact I totally regret upgrading to it as although it is a great piece of software I now do 98% of all my editing in Aperture.

[meansizzler]

OK So I guess I will try out aperture, thanks for the summary, can aperture do batch photo converting like fireworks? also for mac os x what is the main picture viewer?, does it have one built in, or does it use iphoto if you have installed it?, can you change it?

[pixelpixel]

Originally Posted by Peakoverload

One of the biggest advantage of Aperture/Lightroom over Photoshop/iPhoto/Fireworks is that I can take one RAW file and create infinite varitions of it each with different exposures, colour balance, crops etc etc etc and not take up any more disc space. This is because the instructions on how to make this variations is simply stored in a database. To do the same in Photoshop etc would require seperate TIFF/JPEG files of each variation.

Not so true

Photoshop has built in Raw support and acts/is just like lightroom so what you can do in lightroom you can do the same within photoshop. You can use that same camera raw database or use sidecar .xmp files. You can also download .xmp presets and have these available in camera raw when required or just save your own like I do.

Lightroom is a bigger version of adobe bridge if you then add photoshop you have the bigger version of lightroom.

Fireworks was mainly designed for web design and development, its not the best in the world for working with images.

[Radiohead]

Originally Posted by pixelpixel

Not so true

Photoshop has built in Raw support and acts/is just like lightroom so what you can do in lightroom you can do the same within photoshop. You can use that same camera raw database or use sidecar .xmp files. You can also download .xmp presets and have these available in camera raw when required or just save your own like I do.

Lightroom is a bigger version of adobe bridge if you then add photoshop you have the bigger version of lightroom.

Fireworks was mainly designed for web design and development, its not the best in the world for working with images.

My understanding of Photoshop is that it doesn't support non-destructive editing as LR and Aperture do. Edit a raw file in CS3 and save it and you save the edited file, losing the original. Do the same in LR and Aperture and the original remains untouched.

[pixelpixel]

Originally Posted by Radiohead

My understanding of Photoshop is that it doesn't support non-destructive editing as LR and Aperture do. Edit a raw file in CS3 and save it and you save the edited file, losing the original. Do the same in LR and Aperture and the original remains untouched.

ah not so......for some strange reason within photoshop you are unable to access the camera raw settings If you use bridge you can get access to these just like in lightroom.

So my process is open bridge > edit using adobe camera raw > save > open in photoshop to tweak / save. If I want I just go back to bridge and remove the camera raw settings.

[Radiohead]

Which begs the question, why not just use Lightroom?

[pixelpixel]

Originally Posted by Radiohead

Which begs the question, why not just use Lightroom?

Because I already own photoshop cs3 with the same features

[Liquid101]

Personally, while I find the controls of Aperture and Lightroom very useful. CS3 has just about all the RAW editing I want. I edit my RAW files on import, then finish things off in Photoshop before saving to TIFF for storage. Obviously my RAW file is untouched.

CS3 does save an xmp file with the RAW file to record changes so that when you browse the RAW files in Bridge afterwards, the edited image is the one displayed. If you re open the 'edited' image, it opens the the file with the last settings already applied - Of course you can reset and start again.

Photoshop also gives you full access to the TIFF header to edit and store all kinds of metadata within the image itself rather than as a seperate database.

Of course Photoshop gives you far more control over image editing and saving for web.

[Peakoverload]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

OK So I guess I will try out aperture, thanks for the summary, can aperture do batch photo converting like fireworks? also for mac os x what is the main picture viewer?, does it have one built in, or does it use iphoto if you have installed it?, can you change it?

The main picture viewer in OSX is the same viewer that previews ALL documents and images which is cunningly called Preview. If you double click a jpeg for example it will open up in Preview so that you can view it, alternatively in OSX Leopard just press the Space Bar to use QuickView. Don't forget that OSX can generate thumbnails of any RAW file without the need of anything like Photoshop, Lightroom, Aperture, it just can't 'process' them in terms of changing exposure, white balance etc and can open them instantly in Preview.

So my process is open bridge > edit using adobe camera raw > save > open in photoshop to tweak / save. If I want I just go back to bridge and remove the camera raw settings.

But aren't you just using up twice as much disc space doing this? RAW file takes up say 8MB, you process that in ACR, open in Photoshop to tweak, save creating a TIFF file of around 18MB?

[meansizzler]

thanks...

[pixelpixel]

Originally Posted by Peakoverload

But aren't you just using up twice as much disc space doing this? RAW file takes up say 8MB, you process that in ACR, open in Photoshop to tweak, save creating a TIFF file of around 18MB?

Nope as I don't use Tiff, I just edit the raw file if and when I need it. If I want I can store the effect as a xmp. They work out at around 3kb, so as long as I store my original files and the effect I can output in any format when required.

[meansizzler]

This software has to be the most non user friendly app out there, who said macs were simple?, can't even do simple stuff, like delete images from camera once imported, or revert back to master or compare master and edited image side by side, the search engine is useless, basic stuff like resize the image, spent 40 minutes trying to figure it out, then found out you can only resize when you export, well why couldn't it tell me that in the first place... any one else finding it hard to get to grips with it, couldn't figure out how to uplosd to web gallery so use aperture for importing/editing and iphoto for organising/uploading...

[Radiohead]

Yes it can delete after import. The search engine depends on what you tell it - it uses Spotlight technology which is amongst the best there is. Yes you can compare shots side by side. Why would you want to resize except at export?

[dood]

As an aside, can anyone tell me what software comes with an iMac or Macbook? Do you have to purchase lightroom, iPhoto, aperture2 etc over and above the computer?

[imcarm]

Originally Posted by dood

As an aside, can anyone tell me what software comes with an iMac or Macbook? Do you have to purchase lightroom, iPhoto, aperture2 etc over and above the computer?

I got my 17" Macbook Pro back in December and that came with the aperture trial (think it was 30 days) - Aperture does take some getting used to but once you get the hang of it you soon discover just how powerful the application is, all I need now is lightroom

Aperture, Aperture2 and lightroom need to be purchased, iPhoto does not AFAIK need to be purchased.

[Radiohead]

Originally Posted by dood

As an aside, can anyone tell me what software comes with an iMac or Macbook? Do you have to purchase lightroom, iPhoto, aperture2 etc over and above the computer?

You'll get iPhoto and the iLife package - Aperture is a pro application and needs to be bought.

Choose one of Aperture or Lightroom after you've trialled them - you won't need both.