London against Photography

mrtn · 05-03-2008, 10:03 PM

This should put the cat amoung the pigeons, IMO i think it is absurd, totally ridiculus, completly blown out of the water, typical English way of doing things.

http://thomashawk.com/2008/03/london...hes.html#links

http://www.met.police.uk/campaigns/campaign_ct_2008.htm

When will people notice that photography is not a crime!

What do you guys think?

Martin

hot-fuzz · 05-03-2008, 10:10 PM

Photography isnt a crime, but if i get stopped a few times and asked what im doing and it goes toward terrorists being stopped and asked the same question then i dont mind. If people arent on top of it and nor the Police then the terrorists will keep using photography and petty crime for their advantage

Its the same as i dont mind being checked by the Police as long as they do it to people who deserved to be checked as to them i COULD be one that deserves it. I got nothing to hide.

P.S i dont want to start a "i hate Police they are rubbish" thread.

.

mpritch · 05-03-2008, 10:23 PM

I can't believe the police are running this campaign - part of me thinks I shouldn't worry as I could explain anything I do photography wise, but knowing how jumpy the police / security guards are, or how ignorant they are to the laws (I know I'm generalising but there are a few I have met in my travels who know very very little or choose to ignore common sense in the search of power)

The public will see this poster and only read 'photographers are terrorists'. That means anyone who is taking considered photos, ie staying in one place for a while waiting for the moment, will be told to move on by the police.

Fine, I want to live in a country where we are vigilant, but this is over the top. Who was responsible for this campagin ? I am, SOOOOOOO angry at this. It really makes me mad. In fact I'm probably more mad at the agency who designed the poster - i gives the wrong message - ie Cameras are bad, rather than look for people who are sussing out security round buildings.

Last time I went into london, I got stopped 4 times in one day, and asked what I was doing when I had my camera out - I don't look dodgy (hopefully those on the guildford meet will second this).

I guess I'll just start taking some documents with me.....?

mrtn · 05-03-2008, 10:26 PM

How many photos of the houses of parliment etc get taken each day in London by tourists?

RobDickinson · 05-03-2008, 10:26 PM

Easy thing to do is just poke everyones eyes out who venture inside the m25.

*insomniak123* · 05-03-2008, 10:29 PM

You say you could explain everything you do camera-wise, but I don't know what I'd say if a policeperson asked me why I was shooting a security camera. As most of my photography is not planned, and is usually a reaction to things around me, my most coherent reply would probably be "I thought it looked interesting"

"Normal" (hate that word) people shouldn't have to justify going about their normal law-abiding lives to anyone

crazy scare-mongering

hot-fuzz · 05-03-2008, 10:31 PM

It isnt against the law to take photos, nor is it agaisnt the law to walk along the road, but the police are aloud to stop anyone and ask what tehy are doing.

I know you wont believe me ..... but its for a reason.

Now from fear of this turning into a Police bashing thread (as so many do) im going to **** off and leave this thread well alone.

**Steven** · 05-03-2008, 10:32 PM

Opinions are mine and do not represent those of AV Forum or its associates

Quite ridiculous. How many tourists in London?

I have an assignment handed out earlier today - theme of "car parks" and "crossing"... *sigh*

MrChris · 05-03-2008, 10:33 PM

To fellow London residents ...

Has anyone seen one of these posters up?

Would they be up for one of the "flash protests" that were all the rage last year?

I'd love to try and organise one ... lots of people (I'm talking hundreds - SLR's - compacts - mobile phones - polaroids - medium format?

) taking photographs of each other in front of/by the posters ...

Anyone with me?

RobDickinson · 05-03-2008, 10:37 PM

I think an AVforums photoshop competition is in order, pics of the posters subtly altered in mocking ways. :D

**senu** · 05-03-2008, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinchy

It isnt against the law to take photos, nor is it agaisnt the law to walk along the road, but the police are aloud to stop anyone and ask what tehy are doing.
.

..seize their photos images for "analysis" and not return them or do so without any apologies

If you have ever lived in a country where the Police regularly take the laws into their own hands ( I have) You will have a real fear of this trend.
It may seem like you are doing your bit to assist them in crime prevention and staying on top of terrorist " threats" but , one incident of gross abuse of powers of stop search and interrogation will get you thinking

This is not (another) anti-Police Rant but I think a healthy dose of respect for civil liberties to keep them firmly in check is not amiss.
I have a tape with the Police since Dec 12th with a 4-5 seconds of footage of my own bedroom window at least 5 miles from Heathrow skyline.... it is deemed sensitive material.. Still being analysed

RobDickinson · 05-03-2008, 10:46 PM

UK is turning into a facist police state.

Everyone guilty, everyone under suspicion, everyone under control by the state.

The IRA were a greater threat yet we never had such draconian laws & rules.

kevwood · 05-03-2008, 11:06 PM

If a terrorist were asked why he or she were taking photo's, do you [or the police] not think that they would have an excuse or story lined up?

Police officer: "Excuse me, but do you mind telling me why you are taking photos?"
Terrorist: "Damn, my plan has been foiled"

RobDickinson · 05-03-2008, 11:09 PM

With the wuality of terrorists thesedays?

'Allah akbaaar!!!!!!' dead give away...

onefivenine · 05-03-2008, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobDickinson

The IRA were a greater threat yet we never had such draconian laws & rules.

In Belfast we had police controlled turnstiles at each of the main shopping street, you got your bags searched going in and out of high street shops. You couldn't buy games with imitation guns like "Tin Can Alley". Some might call that draconian.

The IRA had a genuine political aim and eventually pursued it and gained 'peace' over there.

The current 'terrorists' simply hate all things western, there's nothing to come to agreement on with them.
How do you deal with that? By any means possible.

If it means encouraging people to report suspicious behaviour then fine.

It's a pity they picked on us, but we know about it now, and know what we can expect from the authorities etc, so can decide how to deal with it if it ever arises.

RobDickinson · 05-03-2008, 11:20 PM

In Belfast. That's more akin to downtown Baghdad now tho eh?

The only real terrorist strike since has been a small group of misguided muslims from the UK who didnt need photo's to know the tube or busses were crowded.

onefivenine · 05-03-2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevwood

Police officer: "Excuse me, but do you mind telling me why you are taking photos?"
Terrorist: "Damn, my plan has been foiled"

**senu** · 05-03-2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefivenine

The current 'terrorists' simply hate all things western, there's nothing to come to agreement on with them.
How do you deal with that? By any means possible.
If it means encouraging people to report suspicious behaviour then fine.

The term "suspicious behaviour" will be open to a lot of abuse IMHO..

In fact a lot of would be terrorists will be refining how to "blend" rather than encourage any questions for "suspicious activities".
At any rate many of these are homegrown who will be chuckling if they can read this now

For those "naively" used to a "free society" it will come a very rude shock

Using my example.. How can a fuzzy video footage of Heathrow skyline ( 5 miles away on a foggy day) be of use to anyone when you can get far better from just sitting in your home and using Goggle Earth??.. And this is personal footage from an NHS Consultant ( with over 10 years of Videography) who has been CRB checked 3 times in the last 18 months..

!

onefivenine · 06-03-2008, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by senu

Using my example.. How useful can a fuzzy video footage of Heathrow skyline ( 5 miles away on a foggy day) be of use to anyone when you can get far better from just sitting in your home and using Goggle Earth??.. And this is personal footage from an NHS Consultant ( with over 10 years of Videography) who has been CRB checked 3 times in the last 18 months..

!

I would hope unfortunate occurences like your run-in are few and far between.
Put that down to poor training/education/behaviour of the police involved.

Hopefully this advertising campaing won't stir small-minded Joe Public into have-a-go hero mode everytime he sees a camera.

dave_bass5 · 06-03-2008, 9:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtn

When will people notice that photography is not a crime!

Martin

No but it can help to commit one in the wrong hands

And the price of photographic gear is certainly a crime

bren-escape · 06-03-2008, 9:25 AM

Maybe of topic but:

When i first purchased my DSLR I was standing outside the shop having a play before I commited and a traffic warden over the road (which I hadn't even seen as i was looking at the birds etc on the roof tops and trees at the end of the street) came over and started shouting saying - I hope you not taking pictures of me!

I couldn't believe it, I just looked at the sales guy and he looked at me in disbelief!

dave_bass5 · 06-03-2008, 9:35 AM

Thats the thing i find worrying.
No matter if the law is on our side or not, you dont know how people are going to react when you point a camera at them.
Imagine taking a shot of something and there really is a terrorist in the shot. Im pretty sure he/she would not be too pleased. Who know s what they would do then. Extreme example i guess but it could happen.
A friend of mine was taking pics of pub signs a few years ago. outside one pub too very large blokes came over and took his camera off him. They did nt ask they just took it, whiel a few others looked on.He kept calm and just offered to delete the shots and they were happy with that but it was a very scary moment for us.

onefivenine · 06-03-2008, 10:13 AM

Keep an eye out for threads like:-

"Help choose dSLR for nuclear mainland attack - Canon 40D or Nikon D80?"

and

"Would an ND filter prevent my terror cell being (over)exposed?"

salubrious_k · 06-03-2008, 10:21 AM

I took this photo of a security camera in the Pompidou Centre in Paris. And to be fair, I do intend to go back their in a few months with a backpack full of home-made explosives. Zut alors! Now I'll have to reconsider...

onefivenine · 06-03-2008, 10:31 AM

If the French government tried to pull the sort of stunts ours does they'd be out rioting in the streets, burning sheep and allsorts.

*insomniak123* · 06-03-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefivenine

I would hope unfortunate occurences like your run-in are few and far between.
Put that down to poor training/education/behaviour of the police involved.

Hopefully this advertising campaing won't stir small-minded Joe Public into have-a-go hero mode everytime he sees a camera.

God help the first have-a-go-hero who has a go at my 40D. He won't do it again

@Dave_bass - wonder why the blokes took such offence to someone shooting signs?

bizarre