[TarMoo]

Canon and Nikon have new Consumer SLR cameras announced at the PMA 2008 Live Show - the 450D and D60 - see dpreview.com for details. I am considering which one of these to buy once they become available in the next couple of months, but I'm not sure which is the better bet.

Both are available with Image Stabilised 18-55 Zoom Lenses. The list price with of the 450 with 18-55 IS zoom is £680 whereas the D80 with VR 18-55 is £530. Bother have dust removal.

The 450D has 12.2 Megapixels vs 10.2 on the D60. The D60 is virtually identical to the previous 40X, whereas the 450D is an upgrade to the 400D with "live view".

I gather that the Nikon 40X was considered to have better build quality than the Canon 400D and the standard lens on the Nikon is better than the Canon.

Right now I am leaning towards the Nikon because of price, build quality and lens quality. To people have any other views to separate these two?

[pixelpixel]

Add the Sony a300/350 and the pentax k200d into the mix also.

I have the same problem, currently looking for a dslr and its crazy, go for something a bit older or wait for one of the many new cameras.

[iGiDK]

I'd wait for the reviews to be honest

But in the last round the general consensus was something like

D40/D40x = better handling, better kit lens, punchier results straight out of the camera

400D = dust removal, better at handling noise, more AF points

This time round, the spec of the 450D looks excellent, but I'd keep an eye on reviews to see how it handles noise - but ultimately it'll probably just be a case of seeing which one feels more intuitive in your hand when you play with them in the shop

That's my prediction anyway

[RobDickinson]

Canons old kit lens was crap, canons new IS kit lens is every bit as good or better than nikons kit lens.

Handling/feel is down to the individual, canons xxxD cameras dont break and IMO dont feel cheap.

450d adds better AF (tons better than d60), much better viewfinder, live view, also comes with MLU DoF Preview and bracketing, and will AF with every lens.

Hard to say before seeing proper images from them but the 450d has the nikon beat everywhere - only thing I'm not sure about on the 450D is the apparently 'small' buffer for fast shooting raw.

[datsunman]

I was waiting for PMA too, and came to the following conclusion:

The 450D is too expensive (RRP anyway) to warrant buying as a first camera, for a couple of hundred quid more (which sounds a lot but at £650ish for the 450D isn't too much more) I could get the 40D which has the speed I'm eventually after for sports etc.

Yes, it will go down, but I've already put off buying for over two months and I'm not prepared to wait another three or four for the camera to be released and then drop in price.

IMHO the D60 is simply too near the specs of the D40/X to bother contemplate buying. It has a few 'nice' features over and above the D40/X but not enough to warrant another high rrp. (Over and above the D40/X)

I'll say at this point that price is a big factor for me at the moment. Despite wanting to buy in at the D300/40D level (I know that these cameras both have the level of functions, speed, AF etc that I'm looking for) I don't want to spend that amount yet.

So what have I done?

I held both the 400D and the D40/X and the Nikon felt better in my hands by far. I bought myself a six month old D40 at a bargain price to get me started. I think that buying a cheaper body and decent glass is a better strategy than an average body and average glass, so if I want to get more I can buy a good lens before worrying about forking out for a good body, the returns will be higher. If I take to it like I hope I will I'll be ready and waiting for the D90 (or whatever the D80 replacement will be) when I get a bit better. Either that or go straight to the D300.

[loz]

Originally Posted by datsunman

The 450D is too expensive (RRP anyway) to warrant buying as a first camera, for a couple of hundred quid more (which sounds a lot but at £650ish for the 450D isn't too much more) I could get the 40D which has the speed I'm eventually after for sports etc.

Dabs are already listing the 450d body for £520 inc VAT. Whilst Komplett have it for £479.

[datsunman]

Originally Posted by loz

Dabs are already listing the 450d body for £520 inc VAT. Whilst Komplett have it for £479.

I suppose that's more reasonable money, but still a long way off what I paid.

To put it another way, if I was picking between the two as per the OP (450D/D60) and didn't want to upgrade in the future then I'd go for the 450D. As I know I'll upgrade eventually then I went for the even cheaper option.

[loz]

Originally Posted by rasputin

I gather that the Nikon 40X was considered to have better build quality than the Canon 400D and the standard lens on the Nikon is better than the Canon.

FYI, there's a review of the canon kit lens here
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/...p5-5p6_is_c16/

It does look like it is a big improvement over the old one

[willykatie]

Like iGiDK said I think it's better to wait for the review and see which one you prefer and you can go to the shop and hold both of them. I used to be 'Canon man' myself just for bridge camera and my first DSLR is Nikon D40x. Was thinking about 400D and D40x back then and after a few reviews i went for D40x.

I think at the moment, D60 basically the same as D40x, only add dust removal and Active D-lighting, correct me if i'm wrong.
And if you desperate getting new model just now, probably 450D offers much better option for you than D60. If you prefer Nikon, i think D40x the way to go just now and upgrade it in a few months when D90 out (maybe?)

[monkeyboy1982]

Originally Posted by willykatie

after a few reviews i went for D40x.

I see you have the Nikon 50 f1.8 in your kit. Does it not annoy you that you can't autofocus with this lens and the Nikon entry-level bodies? For that reason alone, I'd go for a Canon (not to mention the fact that in pretty much every other aspect, the Canon's are coming out on top (for amateur-level dSLR's anyway)). Nikon really do need to release some fast AF-S primes.

[inkinoo]

Originally Posted by monkeyboy1982

I see you have the Nikon 50 f1.8 in your kit. Does it not annoy you that you can't autofocus with this lens and the Nikon entry-level bodies? For that reason alone, I'd go for a Canon (not to mention the fact that in pretty much every other aspect, the Canon's are coming out on top (for amateur-level dSLR's anyway)). Nikon really do need to release some fast AF-S primes.

You kidding? Sales wide Nikon have amateur-level dSLR market.

[dazza74]

I'd probably ignore both those models you mention and get either a Nikon D80 + DX kit lens for about £600 factoring in cashback or if you can stretch to £700 I'd get a canon 40D + 3rd party lens maybe a tamron 17-50. You've less chance of outgrowing both these camera models, I feel they are better investments.

[monkeyboy1982]

Originally Posted by inkinoo

You kidding? Sales wide Nikon have amateur-level dSLR market.

You're joking aren't you?

I've recently seen sales figures for 2007 for the UK camera market (GfK).

No.1: Vivitar 3105S - 170k+ units (it's rubbish, but it's only £30!)
No.2: Canon 400D - 140k+ units (outsells every half-decent compact camera!)
No.3: Sony DSC-W55 - 120k+ units
No.4: Canon IXUS 70 - 110k+ units

There wasn't a single Nikon in the top 10, and no.10 sold 60k units, meaning that, at most, any Nikon model had a maximum of 43% of the number the sales achieved by the 400D!

[jonnypb]

it's the same old canon v nikon

canon wins hands down

[inkinoo]

Originally Posted by monkeyboy1982

You're joking aren't you?

I've recently seen sales figures for 2007 for the UK camera market (GfK).

No.1: Vivitar 3105S - 170k+ units (it's rubbish, but it's only £30!)
No.2: Canon 400D - 140k+ units (outsells every half-decent compact camera!)
No.3: Sony DSC-W55 - 120k+ units
No.4: Canon IXUS 70 - 110k+ units

There wasn't a single Nikon in the top 10, and no.10 sold 60k units, meaning that, at most, any Nikon model had a maximum of 43% of the number the sales achieved by the 400D!

I would suggest you look at the sales for worldwide and not just in one year. Canon were number 1 in Europe for 2007 but a long way behind Nikon in USA and Japan.

Now take it over a 5 year period and Nikon have out sold Canon in the amateur dSLR market considerably.

For point and shoot, Canon are the worldwide number one by miles and miles and rightly so.

On the professional side, with the D3 I think need Canon to be very, very worried and a couple of annoucements coming soon will confirm that.

[monkeyboy1982]

Originally Posted by inkinoo

Canon were number 1 in Europe for 2007 but a long way behind Nikon in USA

Where's the proof? Wher'e the figures to back this claim up. All I can find is information to the contrary:

For USA sales for 2007, look here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...2&changemode=1
Canon in top two spots out of best five!

Reports are showing Nikon have performed well in Japan, but the European and USA markets are massively bigger!
Nikon did hold the Japan market, but by only 3.8% points:
http://en.j-cast.com/2008/01/25015807.html
Last five years? The same post indicates that it is only last year where Canon slipped into 2nd in the Japanese market, where are you getting your facts/figures? Thin air it seems!
Read this post too, relating to the global digital camera market in 2006:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1175724860.html
I particular like this bit:

The company's global DSLR market share fell by 2.8% to 46.7%, still a fairly commanding 13.7% lead over nearest DSLR competitor Nikon Inc.

Oh, and is this not a UK-based forum, where UK trends should be more applicable to the general readership.

Originally Posted by inkinoo

with the D3 I think need Canon to be very, very worried and a couple of annoucements coming soon will confirm that.

Yeah, I agree with this, Canon did stuff-up their last 1DIII series cameras, and I can't blame Nikon for trying to steal some sales. However, this thread is about entry-level, or keen-amateur camera's, not pro gear, so it is pretty irrelevant.

[senu]

Guys please let not get caried away

Nikon D60 vs Canon 450D ( both new and largely untested) need not become a Nikon Vs Canon Thread
Some of us use Both Nikon and Canon.., and dont attempt to read or interprete Sales figures

In relation to the original query; Canon seen to be Saying the 400D is entry level,( whose production will continue) 450D .. A new "Higher" entry level model while the 40D is firmly Mid range ( lower end end)
Nikon is probably in more of an " if it aint broke dont fix it "mode with the D60

Given that neither camera will turn out to be less than worthy . it might be best to wait till they are actually around, reviews are out and you have a chance to hold them. Anything else is speculative

[monkeyboy1982]

Yeah, the 450D will be running alongside the 400D, making each companies line-up:
Canon: 400D | 450D | 40D | 5D | 1DIII | 1DSIII
Nikon: D40 | D60 | D80 | D300 | D3

Wait 'till the 450D is fully released, then try them both out is a good idea.

[TarMoo]

Looking at the stats on dpreview: No1 Canon 450D, No2 Nikon D60, with the 450D having twice the interest as the D60. So these two are the hottest digital cameras at the moment.

The 450D is a big step up from the 400D and perhaps its direct competitors are the 40D and the D80. The Nikon D60 is in a lower price bracket and its competitor is the 400D.

Once the D80 replacement is announced (D90 ?) then the 450D may have some direct competition. Right now the 40D looks to be a better camera than the 450D at a similar price. However the 450D is likely to become the best selling DSLR.

[jonnypb]

I wish I had a penny for everytime we saw a Canon v Nikon thread on photography forums

Everyone on here knows that Canon is better

Everyone is going on about the 450 being a similar price to the 40D but we'll probably find that within 2 weeks of the 450 being launched the price will drop

[czajunia]

A bit OT but I noticed that you have mentioned 40D several times in this thread. Would you go for 450D over 40D? I could get 40D body for around £500 including £100 cash back so the price of both would be comparable. Which one would you choose?
Thank's!

[jonnypb]

Originally Posted by czajunia

A bit OT but I noticed that you have mentioned 40D several times in this thread. Would you go for 450D over 40D? I could get 40D body for around £500 including £100 cash back so the price of both would be comparable. Which one would you choose?
Thank's!

for the prices at the minute 40D all the way. Save you upgrading in the future as well from 450D to 40D

[dazza74]

I'd get the 40D if budget allows or look at a D80. Have to say the new Sony A350 looks good value as well.

[loz]

Current Japanese DSLR market share states are kinda interesting
(approximate, from BCN http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008.html)

40D - 17%
450D - 21%
D60 - 10%

[loz]

Surely the core difference here is Live View.
If you want it, or fancy it at least, then the D60 isn't for you.

Otherwise, most people are going to be happy whichever of these 2 cameras they buy.
Unless you want to do micro pixel peeping on ISO1600 images...