[danrich1]

Apols if asked before, had a look through previous posts, couldn't see a recent thread.
Really want to get back into Photography next year, so am going to get a decent 'beginners' camera. Looks like it's either the Nikon D40x or the Canon 400D - have i missed any others? the Pentax K100D perhaps?
Thoughts from you guys much appreciated.

thanks.

[Dave]

It's worth looking at the Sony a100 too.

Can be had for £330 from argos now which is a right bargain.

[Luffy]

Your going to be told all of them by various people
The nikon fans will say D40x the Canon Fans (me included) will say 400D and the 4/3 fans will give you a list of alternatives

To be honest all DSLRs are very capable best advice go play with them see what feels good and look at the various options for lenses flashguns etc. It doesn't stop with the camera you are buying into a system and once you start down a road it is expensive to change

good luck and wait for the flood gates LOL

[danrich1]

the 4/3 fans?

Appreciate it's a million dollar question, and it's probably down to personal preference, but would appreciate any comments on quality of bundled lens with each as i keep seeing pros/cons of each.

thanks again.

[dazza74]

Kit lens wise the Nikon D80 takes some beating, I am terribly biased though

I think the best buy currently is probably the sony a100 from Argos

[Luffy]

Sorry 4/3 refers to the sensor size used by the manufactures other than Canon or Nikon

Canon and Nikon us a 1.6 & 1.5 crop respectively on there entry level DSLRs which gives the effect of increasing the focal length of your lens by either 1.5 times or 1.6 times
the 4/3 system uses a sensor which effectively doubles the focal length of your lens. Handy if you want a telephoto but a bummer if you want ultra wide.

Kit lenses
They are decent lenses for the price but they arn't top of the range and don't perform as such but I would say if you are starting out get the kit lens which ever one it is and get used to your camera then decide what you want to spend your hard earned beer tokens on

[danrich1]

ok...makes sense. Is this Sony a 4/3 or similar to the Canon/Nikon?

[Brammers]

An attempt at a quick summary of the systems:

Canon - biggest but not best value. Will be around for ever, more lenses than you could fit in your house and they're easy to get hold of. Biggest for a reason - solid choice. USM in just about every lens. Range - budget to pro.

Nikon - a smidgen behind Canon in size, should be around for ever, more lenses than you could fit in your garage and also easy to get hold of. USM in just about every lens. 2nd biggest for a reason - another solid choice. Range - budget to pro.

Sony/Minolta - based upon Minolta who were 3rd biggest in 2005. Every lens you'll ever need, and then some, but be prepared to have to hunt 2nd hand or import for some of the more exotic stuff, or for reasonable prices on certain lenses. Distinct lack of USM focusing makes focus less refined, and budget bodies can therefore struggle with their big lenses - don't try to mount a 600mm to an A100! Wireless flash and stabilisation built into body their wild-cards. Range - budget to semi pro - pro body announced and expected 2008.

Pentax/Samsung - very solid lineup of bodies with weird and wonderful primes. Stabilisation built into bodies a huge bonus. You'll never struggle for lenses as long as you don't mind manual focusing, they take every lens ever made for Pentax. AF selection pretty limited, be prepared to import and scrounge ebay. Range - budget to semi-pro - no pro body announced?

Olympus/Panasonic/Leica - weird and wonderful mount brings advantages + disadvantages. Killer compact telephoto options, f2 zooms and awesome pro-glass, but small sensor leads to worse high ISO performance than other brands, including highlight clipping earlier up the scale. Image stabilisation in body, distinct lack of primes. Tiny 2nd hand market - again be prepared to import and scrounge ebay for a fair price. Range - budget to pro.

Sigma - total oddball, only one model but it uses a weird and wonderful sensor which, depending on who you believe, is either stunning or below par. Decent lens lineup as Sigma make sure their own users can get hold of Sigma glass. Almost no stabilised glass available though. Range - one model only, mid-range.

Enjoy shopping

[jomike]

Originally Posted by danrich1

ok...makes sense. Is this Sony a 4/3 or similar to the Canon/Nikon?

The Sony is a 1.5 crop sensor with a 3:2 aspect ratio same as Nikon. Nikon uses Sony manufactured sensors, in fact.

Mike

[NikosF]

Originally Posted by Brammers

An attempt at a quick summary of the systems:
...snip

Wow - great summary! I'm a Nikon man, but have always believed if you choose Canon or Nikon you can't go wrong and have the maximum number of options open to you.

[jomike]

Originally Posted by NikosF

Wow - great summary! I'm a Nikon man, but have always believed if you choose Canon or Nikon you can't go wrong and have the maximum number of options open to you.

Agreed, great summary!!

Canon and Nikon are good choices, but the other makes tend to give more value for money because they are trying to get market share (in body stabilisation being an example).

Whichever make you go for, rest assured that they all are capable of taking great photos in the right hands. It depends what features you think are important, what your budget is and wether or not you like the ergonomics of a particular body. It is important to try and handle as many cameras as you can to get the feel of them.

Mike

[pixelpixel]

Originally Posted by NikosF

Wow - great summary! I'm a Nikon man, but have always believed if you choose Canon or Nikon you can't go wrong and have the maximum number of options open to you.

Not true, its only personal preference.

I would say go into a camera shop and ask them can you have a hold of the following cameras. This is what I done, I still don't have a dslr yet but I am working on it. Good luck

[danrich1]

Thanks everyone, and thanks for the flickr links, some good photos there.

[senu]

You really must learn to use the search facility...
In fact The NikonD40 vs Canon 400D In one Corner, The Sony A100 Pentax K10D in another is a reccuring thread here.. it seems

Read some of the other threads to see just what they have said
I have 2 Canons at home, ( 350 and 30D) a Nikon DSLR ( was an 80D, now 200D) at work
And have used a Sony A100 for 6 months.
On Christmas Day, I spent a few hrs of fun playing with a D40 ( my cousin had got his wife it for Christmas) alongside my 30D

My point: Dont get hung up in the detail.. they are all capable.. and Life is not about value for money only .. otherwise we'd all be accountants!

[Luffy]

Originally Posted by senu

and Life is not about value for money only .. otherwise we'd all be accountants!

LOL we've got wives for that

[Brammers]

Life is not about value for money only .. otherwise we'd all be accountants!

It's also not about always taking the safe choice - otherwise... we'd all be accountants! :D

[senu]

Originally Posted by Brammers

It's also not about always taking the safe choice - otherwise... we'd all be accountants! :D

Equally true

"Safe" to me would be Auto and point and shoot though, I think once you venture into the world of DSLR... you never know where youll end up!!
(Out of pocket springs to mind!!)

[Luffy]

Debtors Prison

[theo cupier]

My sum total of DSLR experience adds up to a few weeks hanging around this place asking irritating questions and sucking up knowledge.

If I could sum up my learning briefly, it would be:
1. decide how much you have to spend and see what fits in that category for the kit you need to get started (eg, no point thinking about a Canon D40 if you only have £500, equally, no point "limiting" yourself to a Canon 400D if you have £1000)
2. Having compiled a short list, go to a shop and handle the cameras. This alone immediately ruled out the 400D for me. Hold it, fiddle with the controls, see if it works for you.

Beyond that, there are few wrong choices to be made, it seems.

[lloydy53]

I've gone through nearly 30 years of owning Canons, the last of which was the superb EOS600 ( which I've still got ) so I have all the lenses and flash etc that would be perfectly usable on something like the 400d.

So why have I got a Pentax K10, and why do I love it so much?

I was on the point of buying the 400d when I handled a friends ( Myncidwr ) and it felt too small for me, the old EOS600 is a big camera, like the A1 I had before that, and I've got used to a big camera. The Pentax is big and solid, to me it 'feels right'.

I love the specification of it, and I say that at the risk of starting a war with the owners of other camera's. If people want to get into battles over that then let them. I'm very pleased with what my K10 is capable of.

I also like the weatherproofing, which was a major factor for me. But not all the lenses are weatherproof so beware of that if you choose Pentax.

I think the Pentax is a 'sleeper' in the DSLR race, Nikon, Canon and Olympus make some very nice kit, but there are others out there that need a serious look at before you part with money.

Dave

[Luffy]

Originally Posted by theo cupier

My sum total of DSLR experience adds up to a few weeks hanging around this place asking irritating questions and sucking up knowledge.

If I could sum up my learning briefly, it would be:
1. decide how much you have to spend and see what fits in that category for the kit you need to get started (eg, no point thinking about a Canon D40 if you only have £500, equally, no point "limiting" yourself to a Canon 400D if you have £1000)
2. Having compiled a short list, go to a shop and handle the cameras. This alone immediately ruled out the 400D for me. Hold it, fiddle with the controls, see if it works for you.

Beyond that, there are few wrong choices to be made, it seems.

Good advice
Was told many years ago spend as much as you can afford and then a bit more (that was on fishing tackle but the principle applies) Same guy bollicked me for spending too much when I did LOL That was in 1977 and I've still got the rod.

[senu]

Originally Posted by lloydy53

So why have I got a Pentax K10, and why do I love it so much?
Dave

You Sir.. have got big hands ...and dont want a 1D Mk III with 10fps
Just kidding, the 30 or 40D would have felt big enough though and Similar to the 400D . Nikon 40 would not have. It is interesting the Original Canon entry DSLR (300D) was full size but the smaller size of the 350 and 400D have not stopped it selling in nos. My 350D has a Battery grip to "size it up "

Seriously though, horses for courses
Sometimes it isn't just blind brand loyalty and familiarity that keeps people playing safe with brand, it is also the amount of ancillary kit( lenses, flashguns, ect) they may have invested in a particular system ..and the realisation that they are all pretty capable anyway

[morgs]

I went to a camera shop, having read all the reviews in the whole world, and determined to buy the canon 400D

Held it.....


Changed my mind....



I then held a nikon, and it just felt right. (have subsequently bought a D80)


I absolutely agree that you should go to a friendly camera shop and get hold of your shortlist. You're going to be holding the thing for a good few years (hopefully) and it's really important it feels right in your hands.

Canon 400D without a doubt

[rizingstar]

Originally Posted by PaulKay

Canon 400D without a doubt

Affirmative


All this talk on handling etc,pff! I feel for their woman


It's all in the glass.

[Luffy]

Originally Posted by rizingstar

All this talk on handling etc,pff! I feel for their woman
.

My wife wanted to have a good feel before she bought

She got the 400D

[rizingstar]

Originally Posted by Luffy

My wife wanted to have a good feel before she bought

She got the 400D

Oh! and i thought it wasn't the size that mattered!but what you do with it


Goodnight everyone

[lloydy53]

Originally Posted by rizingstar

Affirmative


All this talk on handling etc,pff! I feel for their woman


It's all in the glass.

I like to keep a firm hand on my woman!

And mine's a large whisky if you're dealing with the glassware.

[danrich1]

Hmm.. ok, pretty sure i'm going to go for the Canon.
One last question if ok that i'd appreciate any feedback on.
Seems as though the bundled lens let's it down slightly and i'm better off getting the body and then adding the 50mm lens for 60 odd quid?
Thanks.

[dfrear]

Id say no, the 400D kit lens is fine for starting off. Maybe buy yourself a nifty fifty and cheaper 70-300mm later on when you progress from the kit lens, it's not worth buying body only.