[Timbo21]

I've just bought a Canon EOS 400D, but I'm somewhat surprised I can't use the LCD monitor instead of the viewfinder when composing the pic. I thought most digi cameras could do this these days. After all, my mobile phone can.

Is this the norm with this level of DSLR?

T.

[lightpainter]

Go on then. Somebody tell him! Lol

[Timbo21]

Originally Posted by lightpainter

Go on then. Somebody tell him! Lol

Yes. Please.

[Yandros]

Yes, that's normal on all but a couple of cameras. Apart from when you're doing very high up or low down shots, I'd never dream of wanting to using the LCD to compose shots.

[inkinoo]

99% of dSLRs can not use the LCD as a viewfinder. This is because of how SLRs work. When you look through the regualr viewfinde, you are looking down at a mirror held at 45 degrees so you can see through the lens.

When you press the shutter button, the mirror flips up, exposes the sensor to the light through the lens and then closes again. For you to be able to use the LCD viewfinder, the mirror would have to be always up and as it stands you could not autofocus as you can't bounce off the mirror.

The only Canon dSLR to do this is the 1D Mark 3 and that is over £2,500

[h4rri]

Originally Posted by inkinoo

The only Canon dSLR to do this is the 1D Mark 3 and that is over £2,500

And thats MF only

[Just call me Al]

I can't believe the flippant remarks to this question. I've always wanted an SLR & there is no doubt that it is the best way to get a good picture, however in the 4 months since I've had my Canon EOS 400D I've found that a 'live view' if that's the word would have allowed me to compose a better picture. One instance is often we get good sunsets from my back garden but we have a 6' fence & bar climbing on the garage roof I have to guess where the sunset is & not the exact place it or the cloud formation is at. Having taken movies for many years & with the restrictions on size of baggage in planes I'd like to take just one camera & a movie function on an SLR with the lenses available would be, to me, fantastic. It could not cost much more to add & those 'experts' need never turn it on if they don't need it. One day... one day..

[pixelpixel]

Originally Posted by D2V2D

I can't believe the flippant remarks to this question. I've always wanted an SLR & there is no doubt that it is the best way to get a good picture, however in the 4 months since I've had my Canon EOS 400D I've found that a 'live view' if that's the word would have allowed me to compose a better picture. One instance is often we get good sunsets from my back garden but we have a 6' fence & bar climbing on the garage roof I have to guess where the sunset is & not the exact place it or the cloud formation is at. Having taken movies for many years & with the restrictions on size of baggage in planes I'd like to take just one camera & a movie function on an SLR with the lenses available would be, to me, fantastic. It could not cost much more to add & those 'experts' need never turn it on if they don't need it. One day... one day..

I currently have a Sony H7 bridge camera and it allows me to flick from 'live view' to viewfinder for taking pictures. I would normally always use the viewfinder until I started yesterday to use the viewfinder and find that more comfortable.

[h4rri]

Originally Posted by D2V2D

I can't believe the flippant remarks to this question. I've always wanted an SLR & there is no doubt that it is the best way to get a good picture, however in the 4 months since I've had my Canon EOS 400D I've found that a 'live view' if that's the word would have allowed me to compose a better picture. One instance is often we get good sunsets from my back garden but we have a 6' fence & bar climbing on the garage roof I have to guess where the sunset is & not the exact place it or the cloud formation is at. Having taken movies for many years & with the restrictions on size of baggage in planes I'd like to take just one camera & a movie function on an SLR with the lenses available would be, to me, fantastic. It could not cost much more to add & those 'experts' need never turn it on if they don't need it. One day... one day..

I'm with you on the state of the initial comments, smacks of "if you don't know I'm not telling you" and always reminds me of Delboy saying "go on tell em" with him clearly not knowing.

However, that said if you need a piece of kit which needs video functionality then stear clear of the dSLR's. Their basic set-up means they will never be used for video functionality to any great degree. I personally love the fact that my dSLR doesn't offer anything but photo capabilites

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by D2V2D

I can't believe the flippant remarks to this question. I've always wanted an SLR & there is no doubt that it is the best way to get a good picture, however in the 4 months since I've had my Canon EOS 400D I've found that a 'live view' if that's the word would have allowed me to compose a better picture. One instance is often we get good sunsets from my back garden but we have a 6' fence & bar climbing on the garage roof I have to guess where the sunset is & not the exact place it or the cloud formation is at. Having taken movies for many years & with the restrictions on size of baggage in planes I'd like to take just one camera & a movie function on an SLR with the lenses available would be, to me, fantastic. It could not cost much more to add & those 'experts' need never turn it on if they don't need it. One day... one day..

The main problem (correct me if I'm wrong someone) is that stuff like the AF module is in the optical path above the mirror. You need to raise the mirror and open the shutter to expose the sensor for a live view to work, thus blocking the optical path. I gather the Olympus E330 gets around this by having a second presumably much smaller sensor in the optical path somehow (not sure about the Canon 1D MkIII). In other words, it's a bit tricky to do.

[Bursar]

To be fair to those 'flippant' posters, I'm surprised the OP didn't find out about this when deciding which SLR to buy. Did he not hold one in a shop? Could he not ask the assistant? Did he not read any reviews?

There are a few cameras around that have movable LCD screens. The screen on the FZ50 for instance, rotates around and flips out making shooting at odd angles a little easier. However it's not an SLR. But we're getting away from the point of the original post.

[senu]

Originally Posted by D2V2D

I can't believe the flippant remarks to this question. I've always wanted an SLR & there is no doubt that it is the best way to get a good picture, however in the 4 months since I've had my Canon EOS 400D I've found that a 'live view' if that's the word would have allowed me to compose a better picture. One instance is often we get good sunsets from my back garden but we have a 6' fence & bar climbing on the garage roof I have to guess where the sunset is & not the exact place it or the cloud formation is at. Having taken movies for many years & with the restrictions on size of baggage in planes I'd like to take just one camera & a movie function on an SLR with the lenses available would be, to me, fantastic. It could not cost much more to add & those 'experts' need never turn it on if they don't need it. One day... one day..

There is an older long thread on that topic HERE

The "flippant" remark may have been made in the spirit of lighthearted humour IMHO ..

Saying that ,It does seem rather a little surprising to buy a DSLR without being aware prior that one of its features compared to P&S or even bridge cameras is the inability to use the LCD as a Viewfinder.

DSLRs were modelled after SLRs and for ever and a day, owners of these have been using the eye level viewfinder due to the design of SLR

Maybe in future Digital cameras ( including DSLRs) will leave some of the legacy designs behind..... or not()

LCDs can be great for framing but Im less sure that critical focusing accuracy and exposure preview are as well served .
Apart from say, waist level or really awkward framing situations I think you can learn to happily live without it
At any rate, if you got used to a viewfinder, you might find that bar very few situations you might prefer it to an LCD especially as it isnt prone to ambient light reflection ect
I believe the Olympus E330 also (had) "live preview" and Canon 20D"a" variant for astrophotgraphy can be used in mirror lockup mode for live preview
On the subject of Camcorders.. An all in one imaging unit would be very convenient but attempts at such devices suggest that the compromises involved in making them mean they would either be better camcorders or better cameras but not quite a good jack of all trades.

Even with camcorders, many higher End ( and some newer budget) camcorders do not have an LCD for framing..
You can easily get so good at and used to the viewfinder that later using the LCD would "feel Strange"

Finnaly there are devices ( some affordable, others not so affordable) that bolt on to a DSLR to convert the view from the viewfinder onto a secondary LCD as a " Live preview" screen if you feel that passionate about using it that way

[Timbo21]

Originally Posted by Bursar

To be fair to those 'flippant' posters, I'm surprised the OP didn't find out about this when deciding which SLR to buy. Did he not hold one in a shop? Could he not ask the assistant? Did he not read any reviews?

It's not a problem for me, and it makes absoloutely no bearing on my decision to purchase. It's a feature I would quite like, but that's it. Ultimately I would 90% of the time use the viewfinder, as tiny LCD screens do not show focus etc. particularly well. I own several Canon EOS accessories, so I was always going with either the 350D, or 400D, due to this. It's a feature I assumed was the norm, but, as I said, it's not a problem or a dealbreaker for me, and just to let you know I researched it just fine for my needs.

T.

[senu]

Originally Posted by Timbo21

It's not a problem for me, and it makes absoloutely no bearing on my decision to purchase. It's a feature I would quite like, but that's it. Ultimately I would 90% of the time use the viewfinder, as tiny LCD screens do not show focus etc. particularly well. I own several Canon EOS accessories, so I was always going with either the 350D, or 400D, due to this. It's a feature I assumed was the norm, but, as I said, it's not a problem or a dealbreaker for me, and just to let you know I researched it just fine for my needs.

T.

Great to know you dont feel "cheated" out of a feature..
I think the thread has its merits though in that I can see how easy it is to assume ( inadvertently by the unwary) that digital always equates to the use of LCD for preview

[richard plumb]

there are a few times I'd have liked a flip/twist pop out viewfinder. Coming from a sony 717 I used that quite a bit for low/high level shooting.

Is the zigview any good to use for this kind of shooting? The ads seem to show it giving you a 'live' view, but I assume its just videoing the viewfinder so maybe is OK for framing but not much else?

[davepuma]

My first digital P&S (Yashica Kyocera thing) didn't have a viewfinder. I didn't realise this until after I bought it. I think it was a drunken holiday purchase. I thought you didn't need a viewfinder on digital cameras. Boy, was I wrong. It was utterly useless and you couldn't see what you were doing if the sun was out. I gave it away pretty sharpish only for it to be given back to me not long after, in bits I might add. My nephew had 'fixed' it.

I knew how SLRs worked and subsequently how DSLR's worked and that why/how a viewfinder isn't used for composition/preview. However, a few people have given the OP a bit of a hard time (even if some of it was light hearted). Not everyone is at the same level and everyone is a beginner at some point. Perhaps the OP didn't read all the reviews or try them out in the shop but after all, the 400D is a beginners level DSLR (I have one) and let's face it, I would say the majority of electronics goods are bought online these days anyway. I'm sure the OP now knows how the camera works and can hopefully work around it and enjoy the camera with a few tips from some of the more experienced peope on here.

[lightpainter]

As the culprit that made the first flippant remark I do apologise if you were offended by it.
It was made because I could not believe anyone would purchase an expensive bit of equipment without researching it thoroughly.
More fool me!

[Timbo21]

Originally Posted by lightpainter

As the culprit that made the first flippant remark I do apologise if you were offended by it.
It was made because I could not believe anyone would purchase an expensive bit of equipment without researching it thoroughly.
More fool me!

I personally was not offended by your original post, but the above is just the kind of arrogance I abhore. I have never posted such replies to anyone needing help in home cinema.

As I previously mentioned, it would not have made the slightest difference to my purchase. I also don't demo in shops I have no intention of buying from. My OP also was a double check to see if I had missed something in the manual. I researched the 400D fully to my requirements.

Thankfully your kind of post is not typical of the rest of the forums.

T.

[richard plumb]

it is quite easy to research something but miss something 'obvious' if you are concentrating on other aspects though.

[john key]

I bought my 30D a year ago. I researched it thoroughly and tried the "feel" of it in the shop against the other options I had. One thing I didn't consider at the time was live view on the LCD, because I just assumed thats what all Digital Cameras have, my only experience of Digital up 'til then was the Nikon Coolpix at work. Live view was never an issue, having used film cameras for many years, and I don't think I've ever missed it. It was just that I expected it to be there.

Shortly after I got the 30D, I was using it at work, when my boss walked in and asked if he could have a look. Picking it up, he held it at arms length, and couldn't understand why the LCD didn't "light up". When I explained to him that you had to use the viewfinder, his reply was that this must be a cheap camera, as with all the good ones you used the LCD on the back! Gobsmacked wasn't in it.

[senu]

Originally Posted by Timbo21

I personally was not offended by your original post, but the above is just the kind of arrogance I abhore. I have never posted such replies to anyone needing help in home cinema.
Thankfully your kind of post is not typical of the rest of the forums.
T.

It is also not typical of the rest of his posts.. and he has apologised
It is all too easy to post in haste, or under the influence.. and regret later
I would suggest we close that aspect of this thread,

[stevegreen]

Originally Posted by john key

Picking it up, he held it at arms length, and couldn't understand why the LCD didn't "light up".

I had that happen with my camera once........funniest thing I have ever seen was the bemused look on the girls face

[Pirate!!]

Originally Posted by Timbo21

Is this the norm with this level of DSLR?

FWIW, The Olympus E510 has 'live view', OIS anti dust cleaning and a host of other neat features.

So the answer is yes . . and no!

After lagging somewhat in the DSLR market, Oly have introduced many features to this model which in time I guess other manufacturers will emulate.

In the meantime, here's a comparison breakdown of entry level DSLR's.

[Curious Yellow]

I propose that the OP and lightpainter settle this with 12 rounds of bare knuckle boxing.

Who is prepared to second me?

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by Curious Yellow

I propose that the OP and lightpainter settle this with 12 rounds of bare knuckle boxing.

Who is prepared to second me?

Put me down for a tenner on Lightpainter....Canon 20D+battery grip vs new 400D owner - gonna have the advantage in upper body strength

[LeeroyB]

Originally Posted by lightpainter

As the culprit that made the first flippant remark I do apologise if you were offended by it.
It was made because I could not believe anyone would purchase an expensive bit of equipment without researching it thoroughly.
More fool me!

Lol, I must admit that back in April time I when I was researching buying a DSLR I also didn't know that the LCD couldn't be used as a viewfinder! I soon found out though after handling one in Jessops and asking "why can't I see anything on the LCD!"

[senu]

Guys It is rather early for a or 3!
No bets

[senu]

Originally Posted by Pirate!!

FWIW, The Olympus E510 has 'live view', OIS anti dust cleaning and a host of other neat features.

So the answer is yes . . and no!

After lagging somewhat in the DSLR market, Oly have introduced many features to this model which in time I guess other manufacturers will emulate.

In the meantime, here's a comparison breakdown of entry level DSLR's.

IF only Olympus would use a Standard lens mount... thier feature set is tasty but marketing is lacklustre.. and the 4/3rds system doesnt seem to inspire confidence for long term system investment
Thier Non-DSLRs have also suffered from competition although they are rather decent . I have an A4 print from an older 2MP Olympus on my mantle piece 6 1/2 years ago.. still sharp and colourful

[Holowlegs]

Hi ya


When I got my 400d I knew about the veiwfinder, but one day the wife wanted to take a picture she held it out arms length then told me something wrong she can't see anything. When I explain to her, she told me that can't be right you paid nearly £500 for that you better take it back to the shop.

Enjoy you camera Timbo and don't forget to post some pictures here.

Cheers Holo


PS if you need to know were the on and off button is we can draw you a picture only joking.

[slingshot]

After just buying a DSLR (Nikon D80) I was also surprised by the lack of live view, I tried the Olympus 5xx out but it was too small for me.

It's not just a good thing for shooting over your head etc. I would have thought some sort of swivelling LCD would be ideal, since then you could hold your camera at waist height like a lot of medium format cameras, anyone who's used a medium format will tell you it has a couple of advantages.

1 - Wedging the camera on your beergut keeps it very steady when shooting.
2 - It's less intimidating to some subjects if they can see your face.

Anyway just my thoughts as a recent purchaser.

Slingshot