[stument]

This is the most dumbest thread on here at the moment, but i just want to be sure.

Is the D70s the better option than the D40 and D50?

Thanks

[philaitman]

Personally I don't think it is.
IT has a more hard controls and flash commander mode over the other 2. However the D50 and D40 both produce better jpegs out of the camera. If you shoot raw the difference will be smaller.

I recently had the choice of those 3 but I went with the D50 as I had screw drive lenses (50mm f1.8 most notably) from my film camera which won't AF on a D40 due to lack of in body motor.
If this is of no issue to you then either will do the job.

Also the D40 doesn't have a bracket shoot mode which I use a lot I also I like a top Settings LCD as per my film camera.
Both are good the D50 had things I wanted more than a smaller body and larger LCD the D40 2 big selling points.

[stument]

D50 it is! unless there are more oopinions on this :D

Thanks bud

[philaitman]

Sorry scratch that I jus t noticed Cameraworld is now out of stock

[ilweran]

Originally Posted by stument

D50 it is! unless there are more oopinions on this :D

Just to second the D50 recommendation. It's a great camera

[CyBeRkId2002]

hi...

I am just trying to do a deal on Nikon D200 at the minute and will know whether I have succeded by tonight. If so I may have a near mint Nikon D50 with nearly 2 years extended warranty available fairly soon which I shall place in the for sale board.

If this would be of interest to you let me know and i shall get back to you as soon as I know anything.

Cheers,
Michael

[Yandros]

If you shoot RAW (which I'd seriously recommend), then the D70s is the better camera. You've got a remote flash commander and DOF preview button, and the front command dial, plus a sturdier body. You also get the clip on screen protector on the D70s, which is ugly but gives you that warm cozy safe feeling when your camera is bumping against your belt buckle!

The D40 is a good choice if you don't need the screw drive, particularly if you shoot jpgs, and like something really compact and light.

[stument]

Originally Posted by CyBeRkId2002

hi...

I am just trying to do a deal on Nikon D200 at the minute and will know whether I have succeded by tonight. If so I may have a near mint Nikon D50 with nearly 2 years extended warranty available fairly soon which I shall place in the for sale board.

If this would be of interest to you let me know and i shall get back to you as soon as I know anything.

Cheers,
Michael

Yeah that would be great Thanks alot

[theuncharmed]

Can't believe you'll go for the D50 over the D70s, when you said you were looking another way I thought you meant the D80 or the Cannon 400d.

Seriously bud, the D70s is the better camera. Would prefer to see you get the better camera than the D50 (even thoough in itself the D50 is good) the D70s and at the same price is way better.

Sean

[stument]

To be honest i dont know a thing about Digital Camera's... i have no clue about pixels whats best the screen any of that. I always thought the higher the model the better.

I just want one of the Nikon D series to get me started but at the same time at a good price and not a crappy camera.

[Yandros]

The timeline is D70s -> D50 -> D80 -> D40 -> D40s

The thing that muddies the waters is that the entry models (D40/D50) lose some features compared to their bigger siblings, but have newer jpg processing and noise reduction engines. Personally, if you offered me the D50 or D70s at the same price, I'd take the D70s every time. Incidentally, the D80 is FAR better than all of the above, but you're looking at £185 more.

Here's the conclusion from dpreview on the D50....

Conclusion - Pros
Good resolution and detail, just slight less 'crisp' than the D70/D70s
Use of default color Mode III delivers punchy vibrant colors
Low noise even at high sensitivities, better than competitors
Excellent image parameter control; sharpening, tone, color mode, saturation and hue
Custom curves allows user definable tone response
Nikon Matrix metering II , brighter than D70/D70s
Body design, finish and build quality
Very fast camera operation, virtually no startup, minimal usage delays
Larger viewfinder eyecup (less stray light)
Viewfinder focus screen display of memory card and battery status
Fast SD write performance
Excellent continuous shooting buffer usage, slower but more frames in 30 seconds
Most camera settings available via buttons on camera body
Lighter than D70 although not as small as Pentax or Canon competition
Help pages on custom function menus
Image comment attachment
Multiple color space support (sRGB, Adobe RGB)
Orientation sensor for automatic image rotation
Fully Nikkor lens compatible (plus new DX lenses)
Large, 2.0" LCD monitor
USB 2.0 (Hi-speed) transfers
Value for money
Conclusion - Cons
Not as crisp (per pixel sharpness) as D70/D70s
Still some moire / maze artifact pattern visible (noticeably less than D70/D70s however)
Kit lens performance is pretty average, corner soft, light fall-off
No Kelvin white balance selection
No backlight on status LCD
No mirror lock-up (vibration reduction for long / macro exposures)
One command dial
LCD monitor display gamma can make some images appear over-exposed when they aren't
No viewfinder grid lines (surprisingly useful if you're used to them; D70/D70s)
No vertical grip (portrait grip / battery pack) available
Encrypted white balance in RAW files limits third party converters
RAW+JPEG only captures a Basic quality JPEG
Overall conclusion
Unlike Canon when they produced the EOS 300D (Digital Rebel) Nikon chose not to cripple their affordable digital SLR. Instead the D50 while lacking some of the D70's features doesn't compromise performance or photographic flexibility, most important for first time buyers who (surely) the manufacturers hope will progress to a more expensive D-SLR later.

The D50's sensor and image processing pipeline are clearly different to that of the D70/D70s, it exhibits fewer of the moire/maze artifacts but at the same time isn't quite as crisp as its 'elder siblings'. That said the D50 is more than capable of producing some fantastic results, and is tuned to deliver bright and colorful images from the first exposure. If this isn't to your taste you can of course configure the image processing to produce D70-like images.

We were probably the most surprised by the D50's noise levels, Nikon has clearly spent time since the creation of the D70 on design changes to keep noise down. The D50 has the lowest noise levels of any of the affordable digital SLR's we've tested (although they're all fairly clean, we're talking fractions here).

The nicest thing about the D50 however is that it just feels right, build wise it's a step above the Canon EOS 350D and Pentax *ist DS, it's also not too small, I'm all for making cameras lighter but there's a limit as to how small you can make an SLR before the hand grip feels cramped and controls begin to get in the way. The D50 feels as responsive as any film camera and is a pleasure to shoot with. The only change I would make would probably be a larger viewfinder view (like that of the Pentax *ist DS).

I'm quite happy to give the D50 our highest rating, Highly Recommended, there's little to dislike and for anyone looking for an affordable digital SLR it has to be seriously considered. My only advice would be to research lenses and decide if you want to go with the Kit or spend a little more on a slightly better lens.

[olisun]

Originally Posted by Yandros

The timeline is D70s -> D50 -> D80 -> D40 -> D40s

Is the D50 superior to the D80??

[theuncharmed]

Originally Posted by olisun

Is the D50 superior to the D80??

No way. The time line Yandros shows is just that, a time line of when they were released.

I'd say D80 > D70s > D70 > D50/D40x > D40 according to quality.

[senu]

Originally Posted by olisun

Is the D50 superior to the D80??

No Yandros has rightly stated the D80 is far better than all of the others.. It is also almost £200 costlier and perhaps the hardest (relatively) to learn optimally but once mastered.. the very best
However if your Photography "aspirations" are more modest, non is a poor camera but youll be hard pressed to find the D70 D70s or even D50 now unless buying used

[olisun]

Originally Posted by senu

No Yandros has rightly stated the D80 is far better than all of the others.. It is also almost £200 costlier and perhaps the hardest (relatively) to learn optimally but once mastered.. the very best
However if your Photography "aspirations" are more modest, non is a poor camera but youll be hard pressed to find the D70 D70s or even D50 now unless buying used

I am thinking of changing my D50 to a D80 (especially for the DOP button and even though the D50 is less than a yr old) and was wondering if it's really worth it.

Also where can I find the cheapest D80 Body only.

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by olisun

I am thinking of changing my D50 to a D80 (especially for the DOP button and even though the D50 is less than a yr old) and was wondering if it's really worth it.

Also where can I find the cheapest D80 Body only.

www.camerapricebuster.co.uk

£485 seems to be the best price today for body only

DOF preview is ok, but can be quite hard to use as obviously to viewfinder darkens significantly. The whole package of D50 to D80 improvements is quite appealing...

10MP vs 6MP
bigger viewfinder
bigger and higher resolution screen
bigger buffer
DOF preview
100ISO vs 200ISO minimum

All incremental rather than revolutionary, but if things like the viewfinder or screen on the D50 are getting on your nerves, it might be worth shelling out the cash.

If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket though, also consider better or different glass, as that is likely to make more of a difference to your photos than the body.

[olisun]

Originally Posted by Yandros

If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket though, also consider better or different glass, as that is likely to make more of a difference to your photos than the body.

lol... I already bought the 18-200mm VR a few month back...

Btw I usually buy expensive stuff on 12 months interest free credit options

[mjw123]

I went down the D40 route for the following reasons :-

Lighter
Better LCD
Better viewfinder
Best Out of camera results (judge yourself http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/page22.asp )
Least noise
Size
Speed (faster startup / focus)
Best kit lens
Shorter shutter lag
ISO 3200
Ulimited shooting in JPEG mode

Here's what dpreview said of it against the excellent D50 :-

It would not therefore be fair to describe the D40 as a 'dumbed down' D50, far from it, the range of improvements and new features out-weigh those which have been removed or reduce, which would most likely not be missed by the average D40 owner.

Here's some real world reviews :-

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-came...9.html?tag=sub

And a rather excellent objective rating of the camera (2nd best DSLR on the market )

http://alatest.com/Digital%20SLR%20Cameras/248/

D50 Great - D40 Greater

[senu]

Mike, I totally admire your consistency

Although inevitably the matter of screw drives have been mentioned ,there isn't one single post mentioning the D40 which has not praised its ( D40s) impressive jpeg processing and better noise reduction than say the d50

The OP also mentioned the much older D70 vs D50 and the D 80 has come up..
I imagine that you might possibly upgrade in the future.. Do you see yourself having a D80 or maybe it succesor??
Hope you are enjoying it though .
You seem rather busy re : posting any images lately SweetGirl ( Anitas) efforts with her D40x continue to flow!

[philaitman]

Originally Posted by mjw123

It would not therefore be fair to describe the D40 as a 'dumbed down' D50, far from it, the range of improvements and new features out-weigh those which have been removed or reduce, which would most likely not be missed by the average D40 owner.

Unless of course you're a heavy user of these features or have a few non SWM equipped lenses.

They're all great camera's and all produce results so good that unless you spend your life viewing pixel for pixel at 100% you will be pushed to see the difference.

I find it stunning you can't bracket on the 40 range, most P&S cameras have this. I guess market research told Nikon people in this range didn't want it.

What ever you buy it will do you proud and you'll enjoy it.

[mjw123]

Originally Posted by senu

Mike, I totally admire your consistency

Although inevitably the matter of screw drives have been mentioned ,there isn't one single post mentioning the D40 which has not praised its ( D40s) impressive jpeg processing and better noise reduction than say the d50

The OP also mentioned the much older D70 vs D50 and the D 80 has come up..
I imagine that you might possibly upgrade in the future.. Do you see yourself having a D80 or maybe it succesor??
Hope you are enjoying it though .
You seem rather busy re : posting any images lately

Hi Senu - I didn't include the D80 as it wasn't on the original post. I don't really know much about the D70 as it was always a D50 / D40 choice for me.

I realise the D80 has a great more bells & whistles but I've seen a couple of D80 owners downgrade to the D40 on dpreview.com....I think they felt the D40 was all the really needed Even a guy at work who did the reverse said he felt the 40 might just edge the 80 on PQ....his words not mine. Still all told the D80 must be a better camera albeit a but chunky for me.

To be honest Senu i've been messing around with my new P&S - the Fuji F20 which in low light without flash produces simply staggering results.....all this for £79 brand new

I'll get out with the D40 this w/e and give you some new pics

Just as the saying goes, the 3 main considerations when buying a house are location,location,location.....in my eyes when buying a camera it's image quality, image quality, image quality

ps What do you make of that alatest rating ? - I like the way they come up with the rating system over dozens of reviews and user feedback.

[Yandros]

I think the great thing about threads like this is it's obvious from the many happy owners of the current crop of sub £1000 DSLRs that there aint a bad 'un amongst them

I'll take issue with one part of mjw123s post though. Image quality isn't entirely everything.

The D40 is a great entry point in the DSLR market because it takes great pics straight out of the box - low noise, sharp, lots of 'pop'. This is mostly down to state of the art in camera processing. It's aimed at a user who'll edit the images on the camera, and probably throw them straight at a photo printer.

HOWEVER, throw a RAW file into Capture NX from any Nikon from a D40 to a D200 and I'd lay money on you not being able to tell them apart after 2 mins of post processing.

Ignore at your peril the 'bells and whistles' like a good viewfinder & screen, metering accuracy and focussing system. I have to admit though, having said all that, the D40 is also rather good in all those departments too

If only they gave the thing a lousy screw drive, I'd recommend it unreservedly *sigh*. btw, still waiting for this years lens announcements from Nikon, so no news on new AFS stuff

[stument]

You guys have totally lost me now hahahaha

[senu]

Originally Posted by mjw123

ps What do you make of that alatest rating ? - I like the way they come up with the rating system over dozens of reviews and user feedback.

Im amused
Its a bit like the 400D vs 30D... the 400D is the " new kid on the block" and 30D the old Daddy
In fact having used both and being at a Boat Party on the Thames 3 weeks ago and more recently a birthday party at a hall in Hornchurch I continue to compare them.
My nephew (with his 400D) was struggling while I just kept going with the 30D
In ideal lighting.. the 400D would win in the VFM stakes but the reviews don't go out to the field and do longer term tests.. It is very amusing how the same batch of cameras are reviewed at various times ( and by various mags) and the results are never identical
In this instance those whistle and bells become very meaningful
The ability to get keepers with less effort becomes a big deal
Efficient workflow in processing RAW files and then as Jpeg can become almost second nature as to not totally rely on the camera for processing

So Reviews: I read them and smile... although obviously entertaining, the words " a pinch of salt" come to mind very quickly.

Originally Posted by stument

You guys have totally lost me now hahahaha

Never ....... Basically buy any with confidence
None is perfect but not a single one of then is less than able

The "whistles and bells" of the likes of D80 are not gimmicks but you may be paying over the odds if you'll never miss them.
Conversely the "Punchy" out of the camera output from the D40 will have you drooling!! But truly you will not be able to spot which image came from where after a little post processing

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by stument

You guys have totally lost me now hahahaha

Oops! Sorry my last post was kinda off-topic aimed at mjw123 and probably hasn't helped.

*steps away from the technobabble*

Getting back to the plot

The D40, D50 and D70s pretty much share the same 6 megapixel sensor
The D40 has the best optical viewfinder and best screen of the 3
The D40 has the best in-camera processing and editing capabilities
The D70s is larger, more robust and has a few extra widgets that you may not use, like depth of field preview, a front command dial and remote flash commander
The D40 doesn't have a screw drive motor to turn the autofocus on many 3rd party lenses.


If you want an easy to use camera that takes photos that don't need processing on a PC, and you're in no hurry to buy extra lenses (or are planning on sticking to the newer Nikon AFS lenses), get the D40.

If you're fancying extra lenses, from the cheaper 3rd party manufacturers like Tamron, Tokina, and most Sigmas, you'll want a body with a screw drive - so get the D50, D70s. You'll miss out on the slightly nicer viewfinder, screen and user interface of the D40, but you'll potentially save hundreds of pounds on lenses.

If you want the full monty in terms of features, (except the cuddly user inteface), get the D80, which you'll not outgrow for a good few years.

[mjw123]

Originally Posted by senu

Im amused
Its a bit like the 400D vs 30D... the 400D is the " new kid on the block" and 30D the old Daddy
In fact having used both and being at a Boat Party on the Thames 3 weeks ago and more recently a birthday party at a hall in Hornchurch I continue to compare them.
My nephew (with his 400D) was struggling while I just kept going with the 30D
In ideal lighting.. the 400D would win in the VFM stakes but the reviews don't go out to the field and do longer term tests.. It is very amusing how the same batch of cameras are reviewed at various times ( and by various mags) and the results are never identical
In this instance those whistle and bells become very meaningful
The ability to get keepers with less effort becomes a big deal
Efficient workflow in processing RAW files and ten as Jpeg can become almost second nature as to not totally rely on the camera for processing

So Reviews: I read them and smile... although obviously entertaining, the words " a pinch of salt" come to mind very quickly.


Never ....... Basically buy any with confidence
None is perfect but not a single one of then is less than able

The "whistles and bells" of the likes of D80 are not gimmicks but you may be paying over the odds if you'll never miss them.
Conversely the "Punchy" out of the camera output from the D40 will have you drooling!! But truly you will not be able to spot which image came from where after a little post processing

Fair assesment Senu - I'm not big on pp'ing so out of cam results we're important to me, i'll have a quick tweak in picassa if needed but not much more than that i'm afraid. I'm must do the Raw vs JPG experiment soon to see if the extra effort is worthwhile.

[mjw123]

Originally Posted by Yandros

Oops! Sorry my last post was kinda off-topic aimed at mjw123 and probably hasn't helped.

*steps away from the technobabble*

Getting back to the plot

The D40, D50 and D70s pretty much share the same 6 megapixel sensor
The D40 has the best optical viewfinder and best screen of the 3
The D40 has the best in-camera processing and editing capabilities
The D70s is larger, more robust and has a few extra widgets that you may not use, like depth of field preview, a front command dial and remote flash commander
The D40 doesn't have a screw drive motor to turn the autofocus on many 3rd party lenses.


If you want an easy to use camera that takes photos that don't need processing on a PC, and you're in no hurry to buy extra lenses (or are planning on sticking to the newer Nikon AFS lenses), get the D40.

If you're fancying extra lenses, from the cheaper 3rd party manufacturers like Tamron, Tokina, and most Sigmas, you'll want a body with a screw drive - so get the D50, D70s. You'll miss out on the slightly nicer viewfinder, screen and user interface of the D40, but you'll potentially save hundreds of pounds on lenses.

If you want the full monty in terms of features, (except the cuddly user inteface), get the D80, which you'll not outgrow for a good few years.

Agreed - although the AFS issue will reduce IF Nikon get there finger out and release these overdue new lenses

[stument]

Ive had a long think about it, (Kinda of) And apart from the LCD being 0.5 Inchs smaller i think im going to go for the D70s over the D40

Thanks alot to everyone posting in here, it really has helped me out.

But im getting a good offer for the D70s which i think i should take.

Good or Bad Decision?

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by stument

Ive had a long think about it, (Kinda of) And apart from the LCD being 0.5 Inchs smaller i think im going to go for the D70s over the D40

Thanks alot to everyone posting in here, it really has helped me out.

But im getting a good offer for the D70s which i think i should take.

Good or Bad Decision?

It's all marginal swings and roundabouts really. The D70s feels a bit more 'pro' than the D40 (ie bigger, heavier and more robust). The main plus is the compatibility with lenses like the Sigma 70-300 APO DG macro, the Nikon 50mm f1.8, the Tamron 90mm macro etc. The simple fact is, for example, that you can get a macro lens that'll autofocus with the D70s for £260, but the only one that'll work on a D40 is £500. A genuine 'bad decision' therefore would be a macro fan on a budget buying a D40.

A novice will find the D70s a slightly less friendly camera to get to know, but it's hardly insurmountable. To get the best out of the D70s, I'd recommend a copy of Nikon Capture NX and shoot in RAW (NEF) mode, which will let you apply the latest noise reduction techniques, and play with the colours, sharpening and levels endlessly.

[olisun]

Originally Posted by Yandros

All incremental rather than revolutionary, but if things like the viewfinder or screen on the D50 are getting on your nerves, it might be worth shelling out the cash.

Is the jump from D50 to the D200 considered to be major and is it worth
while?

I shoot RAW all the time but as I mentioned earlier, I would love to have the DOF preview button