[Parklife]

Had a read around and want to get a digital SLR. Narrowed it down to the Canon 30D or the Nikon D80 (don't want to start the Nikon v Canon debate!!!). Have looked at both and feel wise I have no preference. It all comes down to price and lens choices.

I am new to all this but do not want to get the cheaper models as from what I read once I get off the ground I am likely to want to upgrade.

Is there any differences lens compatability wise between the 2?

[denno75uk]

From what I can gather, they have the same access to lenses. Certainly the third party ones and as for Nikon and Canon they seem to have their equivalents.

I went for the 30D because I had Canon lenses from my 35mm but so nearly went for the D80 due to the higher (reported) quality/versatility of the kit lenses, specifically the 18-135.

[Radiohead]

What do you want to shoot, what is your budget for lenses?

[Yandros]

ewwwww!!! now this is a toughie!

2 seriously good cameras.

Hmm, well talking bodies here...

D80 has the price advantage by 150 quid.
30D wins on responsiveness buffer etc I believe, (Senu will probably confirm)
30D on build
30D on fps (5 vs 3)
d80 wins on MP
30D on high ISO shooting

If you're an action shooter/low light shooter, the 30D will be the obvious choice.

As for lenses, your range is EXTREMELY wide for both. Sigma, Tamron and Tokina produce everything in Canon/Nikon mounts. In many cases Canon and Nikon have direct equivalents, but in some cases there are unique items.

A couple of questions...

What's your lens budget for the immediate future?
What sort of subjects do you intend to shoot?

(great minds think alike Radiohead!...posts crossed)

[Radiohead]

Originally Posted by Yandros

ewwwww!!! now this is a toughie!

2 seriously good cameras.

Hmm, well talking bodies here...

D80 has the price advantage by 150 quid.
30D wins on responsiveness buffer etc I believe, (Senu will probably confirm)
30D on build
30D on fps (5 vs 3)
d80 wins on MP
30D on high ISO shooting

If you're an action shooter/low light shooter, the 30D will be the obvious choice.

As for lenses, your range is EXTREMELY wide for both. Sigma, Tamron and Tokina produce everything in Canon/Nikon mounts. In many cases Canon and Nikon have direct equivalents, but in some cases there are unique items.

A couple of questions...

What's your lens budget for the immediate future?
What sort of subjects do you intend to shoot?

(great minds think alike Radiohead!...posts crossed)

We am the geniuses.

I'd pretty much go with what you say - I think the price is lower now on the 30D - can be had for £650 with £65 cachback to come off that against £510 or for the D80.

Of these two I'd lean towards the 30D. But much will depend on what the OP wants to shoot and when.

[Parklife]

Thanks for the replies.

Starting off looking to spend around £800 for the camera and lenses. Maybe in the states as I am off there soon.

Mainly looking at shooting landscapes, not too much action, but would be nice to have something that copes well with this (sure they both do!) and of course the obligatory family shots.

[senu]

Although I have and absolutely enjoy the 30D , I've equally played with the D80 enough to give it the

I actually think with your budget of £800 you could have either with an extra lens to spare
The 10 vs 8Mp is a non issue.. but if you wont need the "speed and responsiveness" the 30D has or its better build quality ( not by a great deal though). It also has better low light ( very little noise even at high ISO) but these comparisons can be academic:
Both cameras are stars

Buy with your gut feelings.. you couldnt go wrong with either

At the risk of repeating precceding posts , the lens range is also not an issue :the lenses available to each are quite wide

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by Parklife

Thanks for the replies.

Starting off looking to spend around £800 for the camera and lenses. Maybe in the states as I am off there soon.

Mainly looking at shooting landscapes, not too much action, but would be nice to have something that copes well with this (sure they both do!) and of course the obligatory family shots.

If that's £800 for body AND lenses, and you're not so bothered about action (ie the 5fps/buffer/AF speed is less critical) then I'd probably suggest the D80, simply because I don't think you need the 30D features, and you're not leaving yourself enough money for lenses. If you just need a single short zoom though, then the Canon may still be a good choice.

The 30D is the better camera, but the D80 offers better value for money, particularly if you don't need the extra speed.

Radiohead, Senu etc can probably come up with some Canon lens options, so I'll stick to home turf and talk Nikon...

On a fairly tight budget, look at the two D80 kit lenses, the 18-70 and 18-135. The 18-70 wins on image quality and build, but the 18-135 isn't far behind, and offers more reach for the same money (about £680).

If you want the ulitmate travel lens, the 18-200VR has very similar optical performance to the 18-70, but the much greater range, and of course image stabilisation. A D80+18-200VR will set you back about £980, but will be a very practical solution if you don't want a bag of lenses.

If you don't mind carring two lenses, and want even more reach (for wildlife etc), get the 18-70 and 70-300VR for about £1000.

If you want a certain amount of low light capability, and superior image qualiy to the kit lenses, consider the Nikon 50 1.8 (£80), 35 f2 (£180) or Sigma 30 1.4 (£240). These may be useful for indoor family shots in particular.

If you want superwide for landscapes (though many people manage with the 18mm of kit lenses), you're talking about £280 for a Sigma 10-20mm.

[RobDickinson]

Remember the UWA is OK for specific types of landcape shots, often a standard or zoom is better for more focused shots & panoramics work well.

Its a tough call between the two realy, especialy as a do it all 'cheap' consumer body. Does the D80 have a spot meter? It has a better viewfinde than the 30D I htink?

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by RobDickinson

Remember the UWA is OK for specific types of landcape shots, often a standard or zoom is better for more focused shots & panoramics work well.

Its a tough call between the two realy, especialy as a do it all 'cheap' consumer body. Does the D80 have a spot meter? It has a better viewfinde than the 30D I htink?

Yeah, D80 has matrix, centre weighted and spot. I think the viewfinder is similar to the D200 (though pentamirror rather than pentaprism?), so possibly nicer than the 30D...although I prefer the AF point illumination on the Canon.

I know what you mean about UWA - if you're not careful you get HUUUUGE amount of empty foreground and everything pushed too far away. Great for the "I wish I could step back a few more feet" moments though.

[Parklife]

OK so on my budget the D80 seems the better choice. I have a few packages I am looking at (ascending price)

1. D80
Tamron Autofocus 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical Autofocus Lens
Tamron 70-300mm f/4-5.6 Di LD Macro Autofocus Lens

2. D80
Sigma 28-70mm f2.8-4 HIGH SPEED lens
Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DG Macro Lens

3. D80
Nikon 18-135mm AF-S DX f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF Nikkor Lens
Nikon 70-300mm f/4-5.6G Autofocus Zoom Lens

4. D80
Nikon 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom Lens


Now I am edging towards 2 or 3 but really do not know enough about lenses to make a decision!

[RobDickinson]

Any reason why you feel you need 2 zooms straight away? Why not a walkabout (17-50 ot 17-70 etc) and get a telephoto later?

Oh and IMO 28mm is way to narrow at the wide end on a walkabout (on a croped camera), your far better with 17/18mm.

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by Parklife

OK so on my budget the D80 seems the better choice. I have a few packages I am looking at (ascending price)

1. D80
Tamron Autofocus 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical Autofocus Lens
Tamron 70-300mm f/4-5.6 Di LD Macro Autofocus Lens

2. D80
Sigma 28-70mm f2.8-4 HIGH SPEED lens
Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DG Macro Lens

3. D80
Nikon 18-135mm AF-S DX f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF Nikkor Lens
Nikon 70-300mm f/4-5.6G Autofocus Zoom Lens

4. D80
Nikon 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom Lens


Now I am edging towards 2 or 3 but really do not know enough about lenses to make a decision!

If you don't mind I'll use a red pen on your list

Scrub the 28-80 and 28-80. You'll find 28mm isn't wide enough. Consider the Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4.5 DC Macro or Tamron 18-50 2.8. The Sigma gives you some macro capability, whereas the Tamron is constant f2.8.

With the long zooms, on a budget go for the 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO Macro DG. The superior option is the Nikon 70-300 VR (not the cheapo G lens), as this gives you vibration reduction (ie you can handhold even at extreme telephoto). Both of these are extremely good value and highly rated lenses, so I wouldn't suggest you look at any others to be honest.

TO SUM UP YOUR CHOICES

If you shoot a lot in museums, galleries, churches, stately homes etc, then I wouldn't look any further than the 18-200VR - no question. The VR is AMAZING, assuming your subject is stationary.

If you think you'll be shooting people, in less than ideal lighting quite a bit (eg indoors without flash), then something like the Tamron 18-50 2.8 would be your best bet

For low light portraits, get the cheapy Nikon 50 1.8

If you're not worried so much about low light shooting, then stay with the Nikon 18-70, or 18-135.

For wildlife, you'll need 300mm or more, but remember that 300mm needs lots of light, a tripod or VR!!!

[Parklife]

Thanks for the replies.

Just found those packages and thought maybe this was the way to go!

I'll take a look around at your suggestions.

[senu]

Originally Posted by Yandros

Yeah, D80 has matrix, centre weighted and spot. I think the viewfinder is similar to the D200 (though pentamirror rather than pentaprism?), so possibly nicer than the 30D...although I prefer the AF point illumination on the Canon.

I wouldn't say the D80 has a better viewfinder than the 30D at all. (... maybe the 350 or 400D)

The D200, 80 and 30D all have fairly similar pentaprisms for thier viewfinders . The Nikons are said to be a bit brighter ( Hi brite screen) but not enough of a selling point as they seem identical in other ways.

As for lenses for the 30D... just like with the D80 there is no shortage of affordable Canon and 3rd party options for anybody considering it ( Im assuming the OP has settled for the D80 here)

Regarding UWA, I use an UWA Tokina 12-24.. lovely ....but it takes some getting use to
.
It can be used nearer its wide end ( where there is an overlap with the wide end of standard Wide angle zooms) for Landscapes with no hint of barrel distortion.
Canons 17- 55 or even 17-40L have significantly more "curvies " in that WA range

[mansell]

I can’t recommend a 30D as I don’t own one, but I do own a D80, IMO this is a great camera, I would strongly recommend you purchase one of these with just the 18-135mm kit lens to start with. This lens is very sharp indeed, has great reach up to 135mm, about as much as you would want without VR, ok it doesn’t have the metal mount of the 18-70 but so what, the IQ is fantastic and you have twice the reach.

The D80 itself is well built, feels solid in the hand and comfortable, has a bright view finder and is very responsive. You also have in camera touch-up options such as d-lighting, red eye reduction and filter effects etc. If you are seriously into sport shooting then maybe buy the 30D as it shoots at 5fps, if that is the case then you may want to look also at the D200!

I wouldn’t buy the 18-200VR (if you can find one), it’s very expensive and the IQ isn’t as good as the 70-300VR, save for this lens if you want more reach or buy the sigma 70-300APO if you are on a budget.

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by mansell

I wouldn’t buy the 18-200VR (if you can find one), it’s very expensive and the IQ isn’t as good as the 70-300VR, save for this lens if you want more reach or buy the sigma 70-300APO if you are on a budget.

As I said above, I'd describe the 18-200 as my "museum lens". The performance is almost identical to the 18-135, and a better build, and that 3 stop VR advantage wipes the floor even with low light primes. It is expensive, but as a sightseeing lens I reckon it's superior to the 18-135+70-300VR combo.

[senu]

It is amazing how these things turn up

have a read .. and smile

Making final decision between 30D and D80. Help required.

[Parklife]

Thanks for all the advice. Picked up the D80 and a couple of lenses. Extremely happy with the results even without and tinkering. Even picking it up and leaving on auto provides decent results. Obviously so much more to get from it! I can understand how people get the 'bug'. Already decided I need a larger telephoto

[ksten]

Excellent.

Yup, I've only recently taken it up and I'm loving every minute of it. Find myself thinking about what shots to take and where all the time!

Looking forward to seeing your images.