[Coolit]

Hi All,

First off, I'm new to the D/SLR world and require some advice My dad had an interest in SLR photography for many many years, the number of Amateur Photographers in my mum's Garage is testament to this, but I was never that interested and always thought why does he have so much camera equipment although from what I've read on here its the curse of photography.

I've had a compact digital camera for quite some time and find it ok for the quick snapshot but it's pretty rudimentary and the PQ isn't great so I've decided to invest in a DSLR, in fact I decided to do this a few months ago but wanted to investigate what's available before making my purchase as it will be a long term investment for me.

This camera will be used mainly for general use, and I have an interest in taking pictures of lit buildings and general engineering (bridges etc..). I also go to motor sport events occasionally so a capable camera for this would be useful also. Lastly, I can see me taking landscape pictures on holiday with the occasional nature shot. Another point to consider is that I have windows Vista 64bit and so will need something compatible with that, although I believe most cameras will be fine.

I have a few cameras on my final short-list, Canon 400D, Canon 350D, Sony A100, and a Pentax K100D. My budget is about £800 but I will spend a little more if needed, although less is better! I'm in the middle of decorating (oh joy!) and will be looking to make my purchase after I'm finished at the end of next week.

I have to admit I was all set to buy the Pentax with the kit lens as it seems great value and would leave me a few hundred pounds to spend on lenses, SD memory and a bag but the more I think about it the better off I feel I'd be buying a better body as the more expensive cameras above aren't much more (£60ish extra). Also, no anti dust mechanism and only 6mp is also making me hold back although I'm not sure if they are really important.

Out of the above models I like the Sony the best on first impressions although I'm concerned about Sony's commitment to the DSLR scene, and the availability of future equipment (lenses etc..), also, from what I can tell there equipment seems more expensive than Canon or Pentax equivalents.

It would be much appreciated if I can get some advice on what to buy, lenses to purchase and anything else I'll need to get including memory and bag.

I realise there are a lot of similar threads on here and I've read most of them! but I guess everyone's different, apologies for another one none the less!!

Thanks

[MonkeyHugger]

What about the olympus e-400?

It's avaliable from pc world for £599 as part of the double lens kit.

It's also the worlds smallest and lighest dSLR...

[Astaroth]

Small isnt necessarily good... the 350/ 400 is also very small and many have reported it is too small for them.

I have the 350 and never had a problem with the size but recently added a grip and have found it much easier to handle the camera with the deeper grip when using heavier/ longer lenses

[senu]

IMHO,all the cameras you have listed will get you there. Just make sure you have play with it before you buy as the handling difference and how you gel with them is rather more diverse than actual differences in IQ.

Most posts will express personal preferences.. and why.


Given your diverse interests, I don't think any one camera.. ( or lens for that matter) will ultimately be the "all and all" but there will be little ways to get round any of these limitations in whatever you settle for

There is a danger of having information overload as "Purchase Paralysis" can occur when reading about extensive negatives of each camera which are thrashed to death by experts or lovers of the alternative ( Canon vs Nikon) : Avoid this by being circumspect, none (Camera/ lens) is perfect ( least of all the user )

[Liquid101]

Originally Posted by Coolit

I have a few cameras on my final short-list, Canon 400D, Canon 350D, Sony A100, and a Pentax K100D. My budget is about £800 but I will spend a little more if needed, although less is better! I'm in the middle of decorating (oh joy!) and will be looking to make my purchase after I'm finished at the end of next week.

Interesting that you don't even consider the offerings from Nikon. Any particular reason for that?

Out of the models you have chosen, I would go with the 400D, purely becuase there will be far more available in terms of accessories for Canon cameras, and this is the latest model.

The chances are, if you get even vaguely serious about your photography you're going to go down the Canon/Nikon route eventually (trust me on this) so why not start out that way?

[Coolit]

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.

I'm not really keen on the Olympus, its a nice camera but I don't like its design unfortunately, I also have mid to large hands so it could make using it awkward at times.

I appreciate what your saying Senu and your right I'm starting to feel information overload!

I did consider the Nikon D80 although at £650 with the kit lens it seems a little expensive when compared to the others, especially with the recent Sony price drop you can get the A100, 18-70mm and a 75-300mm kit lens for £640.

The 400D looks ace also and your talking a lot of sense about going the Canon/Nikon route, I could use the lenses I buy with future body purchases, which lenses would you suggest I should go for if I buy the 400D?

Thanks :D

[HotblackDesiato]

Originally Posted by Coolit

which lenses would you suggest I should go for if I buy the 400D?

Thanks :D

For your general photography it's hard to see past the 50mm f1.8, or maybe the 35 f2, imo.
If you go the zoom route there's a plethora of lenses that might be considered for "general photography". Including 16-35, 17-40, 17-55, 24-85, 24-105 (and that's just from Canon). Cost and quality vary so you'd be well advised to read up and visit a store to try out for yourself. Motor sport, well moving cars and not driver candids, often needs a lens with some reach, i carry a 400mm, but typically hire a 500 if i get to a big race. The sad news is these long lenses are expensive, but upto around 300mm you should be able to find cheaper zooms, though they do tend to be slow at the long end.

[Pirate!!]

Ahoy Coolit!

In case you were unaware, Sony bought out Konica/Minolta. Threfore the Sony Alpha A100 is extremely well catered for in terms of lenses not just by KM but by Sony, Sigma, Tokina and Tamron. In fact, there are more lenses for this system than you could ever need (which is nice to know).

Personally, I would opt for the Sony over Pentax.

[Strobe]

Happy Sony A100 user here. When I bought mine (which was on the UK day of release at the end of July) Nikon and Canon hadn't released their comparables ie. D40/D80 and 400D but, in retrospect, I don't think I would have opted for another. All of the cameras you have identified will produce excellent photos in the right hands.
A big plus for me is the in-built image stabilisation which can save you a few quid on lenses; same as with the Pentax.
The Sony kit lenses are fine but the after market lenses do make a worthy upgrade and, as Pirate says, there are loads of Minolta lenses available on the used market. A popular approach with the Sony is to go with the A100 + 18-70 kit lens (around £450) and then add the Minolta AF 50mm F1.7 (the Minolta equivalent of the Canon 'nifty-fifty') and the Minolta 70-200 F4 (known as the 'beercan'). These lenses can be picked up for around £100 each on fleabay and they are both top quality. The Sigma 70-300 APO DG Macro is another popular lens, for all brands not just Sony, and can be picked up new for around £160.
A good starter 'set' for your £800 would be Sony A100 + 18-70 (£450), Sigma 70-300 (£160), Minolta 50mm F1.7 (don't pay more than £80), Bag £40 + Sandisc Extreme III 4 GB CF Card (www.mymemory.co.uk); all in for £800 odd!!!

PS. Don't get too hung up on the number of megapixels 6mp is fine but the higher megapixels do give you more scope for cropping and enlarging.

[garysherpa]

hi coolit have you thought of the nikon d50 its an exellent camera, and you can get some brilliant kit deals if you look around in your price range.

[mjw123]

Can't believe you haven't gotthe Nikon D40 on your list

It's winning awards left, right & centre against the other cameras you've mentioned. The only camera i'd consider alongside it in your situation is the 400D

For results straight out of the camera nothing touches the D40 at tthe moment.

[Coolit]

Hi all,

I thought I'd post back now I've ordered everything to let you know what I went for and to see if you think I've made the right choices on lenses etc... In the end I bought a Sony A100. I was starting to struggle and so decided to go with my initial thought, the Sony, and also the comments above helped greatly in my decision.

I found a great site thanks to Brammers (who's just joined the forum today) DYXUM.com which has loads of information about Sony fit lenses and general Minolta hardware. In conjunction with everyone's lens suggestions, Brammers suggestions and the Dyxum site I purchased the following:-

Sony A100 body – Park Cameras £425 delivered
http://www.parkcameras.com/ProductDe...0-89dcc1c62f08

Ex demo SIGMA F2.8 18-50 - £190 delivered
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=120090926742

Minolta AF 70-210mm f/4 (Beercan) - £109.99 Delivered
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=290088125915

Minolta 50mm F1.7 - £82 Delivered
http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12074

SanDisk CompactFlash 2 GB Extreme III – Amazon Marketplace (new) - £23.50 Delivered
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Comp...&s=electronics

Tamrac System 3 Bag - Morris Photographic £34 Delivered
http://www.morrisphoto.co.uk/Product...oryid~177.html

You can see I didn't go with the kit lens, unlike most DSLR's that I could see the kit lens cost £55 more, not just £10-15, instead I put the money towards the Sigma as in the long term I'm sure I'll be happier with this, it seemed a pretty good deal too.

I decided to buy a new body and 2nd hand lenses, it helped to keep the cost close to my budget and meant I'd have good quality proven kit to start with. In total its cost £864 all in.

The last thing I'm going to look into for now is Adobe Elements 5, although I'm an avid linux fan and so have used Gimp for several years (although far from an expert), I'll use Gimp in the meantime until I get to grips with my kit which will take a while! then buy Elements.

I'm really looking forward to getting started which will of course entail a rake of questions! hopefully not all silly

Thanks for the help everyone,

Coolit

[GBDG1]

You shouldbe weary of fake sandisk extreme cards off amazon marketplace.

[Yandros]

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

You shouldbe weary of fake sandisk extreme cards off amazon marketplace.

That's VERY interesting, as I was about buy that same item. Any more details?

[Strobe]

Originally Posted by Coolit

Hi all,

I thought I'd post back now I've ordered everything to let you know what I went for and to see if you think I've made the right choices on lenses etc... In the end I bought a Sony A100. I was starting to struggle and so decided to go with my initial thought, the Sony, and also the comments above helped greatly in my decision.

I found a great site thanks to Brammers (who's just joined the forum today) DYXUM.com which has loads of information about Sony fit lenses and general Minolta hardware. In conjunction with everyone's lens suggestions, Brammers suggestions and the Dyxum site I purchased the following:-

Sony A100 body – Park Cameras £425 delivered
http://www.parkcameras.com/ProductDe...0-89dcc1c62f08

Ex demo SIGMA F2.8 18-50 - £190 delivered
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=120090926742

Minolta AF 70-210mm f/4 (Beercan) - £109.99 Delivered
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=290088125915

Minolta 50mm F1.7 - £82 Delivered
http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12074

SanDisk CompactFlash 2 GB Extreme III – Amazon Marketplace (new) - £23.50 Delivered
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Comp...&s=electronics

Tamrac System 3 Bag - Morris Photographic £34 Delivered
http://www.morrisphoto.co.uk/Product...oryid~177.html

You can see I didn't go with the kit lens, unlike most DSLR's that I could see the kit lens cost £55 more, not just £10-15, instead I put the money towards the Sigma as in the long term I'm sure I'll be happier with this, it seemed a pretty good deal too.

I decided to buy a new body and 2nd hand lenses, it helped to keep the cost close to my budget and meant I'd have good quality proven kit to start with. In total its cost £864 all in.

The last thing I'm going to look into for now is Adobe Elements 5, although I'm an avid linux fan and so have used Gimp for several years (although far from an expert), I'll use Gimp in the meantime until I get to grips with my kit which will take a while! then buy Elements.

I'm really looking forward to getting started which will of course entail a rake of questions! hopefully not all silly

Thanks for the help everyone,

Coolit

Look like good choices to me, Coolit. Will be nice to have another A100 user on the forum (think I'm the only one at the mo!). Hope you have fun with it. Also check out Gary Friedman's user guide; he is a longstanding Minolta user and well respected ... http://www.friedmanarchives.com/alpha100/index.htm.
Also be interested to hear how you get on with th 50mm F1.7 and the 'Beercan'. I have been considering these when funds allow.
If you don't wany to get memory off auction sites then check out www.mymemory.co.uk (sale on at the mo as well).

Regards,

Simon.

[GBDG1]

Originally Posted by Yandros

That's VERY interesting, as I was about buy that same item. Any more details?

There was a thread not so long ago started by Thecaretaker about face cards. Apparently around 90% of sandisk cards on ebay are fake. I presume it will be similar for marketplace. If you see a Sandisk extreme card for sale anywhere other than a retailer and it seems just abit too cheap you should be very weary.

[lmccauley]

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

You shouldbe weary of fake sandisk extreme cards off amazon marketplace.

I've just bought a 1GB SanDisk Extreme III from Amazon (sourced from flash_memory) for £14.15 (inc p&p), and it came sealed in full retail packaging (including recovery CD, and little bag to store cards in). If it's fake, it's very well done!

[GBDG1]

Originally Posted by lmccauley

I've just bought a 1GB SanDisk Extreme III from Amazon (sourced from flash_memory) for £14.15 (inc p&p), and it came sealed in full retail packaging (including recovery CD, and little bag to store cards in). If it's fake, it's very well done!

They are mate, here is the thread Ebay's a funny thing!

some good info futher down the page.

[lmccauley]

Thanks. I'll have a good look at the card and packaging tonight to see if it's genuine.

[Coolit]

I'm a little concerned if this is a fake! although at £23.50 its only £2 cheaper than Mymemory for the same card which makes me think its not.

I guess I wont have a problem getting a refund from Amazon if I can prove its a fake, there policy is pretty good with marketplace as I've used it before with a similar problem.

So Ill have a hunt round the net to try and find out how to identify them.

Thanks for alerting me to this.

Nothing arrived this morning btw!

[Yandros]

I'll have a look at my existing Extreme III 2Gb when I get home...got me paranoid now! Actually I'm pretty sure that one will be ok, as it was bought from Amazon, rather than Amazon marketplace.

[senu]

Quite a few "fakes" are genuine but generic memory with sandisk "covering". they may be OK for the money .
The worry is those which had failed QC, sold on to wholesalers as generic but miraculously end up looking like the real thing: they may be more prone to sudden failure
On the whole most of the cards are fine.
But especially with e-bay Buyer beware

[jonnypb]

i always use somewhere like mymemory for sandisk, still cheap and you get peace of mind that it's genuine as well

[Pirate!!]

Ahoy!

Looking for a cheap 4 GB CF card . . . click here.

Just remember who told you.

[Coolit]

Thats pretty damn cheap! no customs tax either.

I may buy one of these as a backup card just in case, any idea how fast it is?

[Coolit]

Ok,

I've had a hunt around the net and found out that most of the fakes are Ultra II's but there are Extreme III fakes also. Ebay have published guides on how to spot them and so I'll check my card when it arrives, if its a fake I'll contact Amazon about a refund.

Extreme III Guide
http://reviews.ebay.com/FAKE-SanDisk...00000001456539

Ultra II Guide
http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/FAKE-SanDi...00000001254881

[Ikki]

Good choice on the camera Coolit, I use a Konica Minolta 5D, the A100's father. While I would have gone for the Sigma 17-70mm over the 18-50mm, the beercan is undoubtedly a good choice.

As far as the Sandisk CF card is concerned, it is very true that most are fakes, I have bought one myself and both the card and packaging are very difficult to identify as fakes without direct comparisons. Where you will notice the difference is the write speed. This card should be able to achieve about 13.5 MB/s on the A100, that means five raw files in under 3 seconds. If it is much slower, it's a fake.

Here is some information about the physical differences:

CF card:
http://martybugs.net/articles/fakesandisk.cgi

SD card:
http://members.shaw.ca/fakesandisk/

It is possible to benchmark the card to check it's transfer speed. This method is only useable if you have a genuine version of the card to compare it with as you will never see the manufacturers specified figure due to all the variables involved. Put the card in the card reader and run bench marking software such as SiSoft Sandra and you should see much the same speed for each card.

http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/

All cards carry the manufacturer name, manufacturer ID and serial number stored deep inside the physical layer data of the memory. This can be used to absolutely confirm authenticity with the manufacturer. The problem is accessing this information.

If you have a Palm, then the above information is easy to access for SD cards by putting the card into the pda and running an application called CardInfo.

I can't find anything to access this physical layer data in Windows but there is a Pocket PC utility that will do the job.

Pocket Mechanic, it's only about £8 but in an emergency the 15 day trial will do the job:

http://www.antontomov.com/index.php?...c&cat=overview


Some PDAs like the Dell X50 or X51 series and a few others take both Sd and CF cards and the above application works equally well for both types of card.

After installation, just run the program and select Card Info and a few steps later you will have the necessary information.

This is a screen capture of part of the final report from my Pocket PC. The card is a SD 16MB that came with a Minolta F100 digicam and is branded Panasonic. As you can see the manufacturer is given as I-O Data, not Panasonic. This is not a problem as many cards are OEMed (made by someone else and rebranded), I-O Data is a legit OEM and Panasonic would be able to confirm card authenticity from this. ALL Sandisk cards should have Sandisk as manufacturer though. I tested a few other cards and found that a FujiFilm 40X 1GB CF was made by Samsung, a Canon SD by Sandisk and a Kingston Elite Pro SD again by I-O Data.

If you are trying more that one card, close the Pocket Mechanic application between running the card info function as it does not seem to refresh and reports the previous cards data.

[Coolit]

Thanks for a great post Ikki, must have taken you a while The images will be pretty handy for checking and I'll check the manufacturers ID. I dont have a card reader on my PC and my laptop just has a SD slot, is it worth buying one to check the ID and use for copying pics over? I think my most anticipated lens is the beer can, I've read so many good things about this lens over the last few days, I cant wait to give it a try, its meant to be a hefty bit of kit too!

I was also wondering about this A100 guide Strode, as you have to buy it, is it worth buying?

http://www.friedmanarchives.com/alpha100/index.htm

I meant to say earlier also I received my camera from Park Cameras, I must say I cant fault them in the least considering I only ordered at 3 yesterday, fantastic service. So the batteries on charge while I await the lenses and other bits!

[Pirate!!]

Originally Posted by Coolit

Thats pretty damn cheap! no customs tax either.

Originally Posted by Coolit

I may buy one of these as a backup card just in case, any idea how fast it is?

See here. May not be the fastest, but seems to be worth the investment just the same.

Are there any Brownie Points to be had?

[lmccauley]

Well, I just benchmarked my "SanDisk Extreme III" using SiSoft Sandra and it seems to be about two thirds the speed of my Pixar Platinum. More worryingly, the Endurance Factor is about a quarter.

I did this direct from the camera, as I only have a USB1 reader. I must get hold of a USB2 reader and try it again.

I haven't yet managed to find a page that shows how to spot fake SanDisk Extreme III SD cards (just about everything else).