[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

After reading a link from a poster here I discovered something I never realised. That the 1.6 crop of the APS-C sensor in my 350D affects the ability to get out of focus (bokeh) backgrounds. I never realised this. I had, through trial and error found out that longer focal lenght and distance from subject to background has an effect (and of course ftop). I never realised how profound the difference was between the APS-C and full frame sensors though.

So I did an ebay search for Eos1DsMK11's like Pete's then decided a sanity check was in order. Noticed a brand new EOS5D with 24-105Lis lens though. It was being sold by the guy who won APOY....bidding had 2hrs to go and was at £1080....I dreamt of getting it for £1300 and then selling 350d my 10-20 sigma and my 24-70 sigma....So I waited and watched....10 minutes later bidding was at £2000+...Does anyone have an Eos5D? is it significantly better than the 350D? Should I just be thankfuLl for what I have.....

Gordon

[tontoshorse]

Yes!

Just face facts, and repeat this mantra:

The camera equipment I am looking at is far better than the kit I own.

[onefivenine]

I wouldn't get a brand new 5D these days - too close to being superceded, but I'd go for a 2nd hand one.

Full frame will leave you wanting longer and higher quality lenses. With a crop sensor your focusing through the best part of the lens.

[onefivenine]

Just over £2000 would get you a 24-70 f/2.8 L and a 70-200 F/2.8 L IS new.

They would do wonders for a 350D. And you'd have them all your life, through all future upgrades.

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

I already want HQ lenses...I have a 70-200F4L and I rarely use the 200 end of it as it is. I want a 24-70 f2.8 L next......

I had thought that perhaps there might be a 5D replacement up soon but its only a year old.

Gordon

[Kaoshan]

Originally Posted by Gordon @ Convergent AV

....Does anyone have an Eos5D? is it significantly better than the 350D? Should I just be thankfuLl for what I have.....

Gordon

In a word yes... but be thankful for what you have! Over a period of 10 months, I had a 350D which got me in the mood but was too small for my paws, gave it to my wife and got a 30D... fantastic camera, ergonomically far superior to the 350D and produces very good pictures. Started to build up a lens collection.

Then I did some IT consultancy work and had some spare cash so I decided to go for a 5D/24-105 bundle to complement the 30D. Yes, the 5D is likely to be superceded but it is a really good camera. I wanted to see why the folks on other forums raved about full frame cameras and I'm beginning to understand

One interesting thing I have not figured out yet is why my 70-300 IS DO lens which was soft on the 30D body and spent most of its time in my camera bag is pin sharp on the 5D and is rapidly becoming my preferred lens if I am travelling and can only take one.

[onefivenine]

I think you would appreciate the long end of the 70-200 more with a 5D. Hang onto it! But if landscapes are more your thing maybe less than some people. A nice 16-35 f/2.8 L and a 2nd hand 5D that's the sort of thing I would go for!

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

I did/do suspect that I'll use the long end of the 200 alot more with a full frame camera. I like portraiture, landscapes, architecture and editorial style photography. I'm not a sport or nature photo fan. I really want to try more of the former. Like most folk here though my desire for kit is way beyond my means to afford it.

Gordon

[onefivenine]

If I had your kit and interests my upgrade path would be 5D next, then the 24-70 2.8, then maybe the 16-35 2.8, after that body upgrade to 1 series.
Over a long period of time!

[Radiohead]

Originally Posted by onefivenine

I wouldn't get a brand new 5D these days - too close to being superceded, but I'd go for a 2nd hand one.

I'm not so sure. There's no real need for Canon to replace the 5D as it has no real competition in terms of sensor and price-point. It's also something of a bargain now and you can bet that Canon will be looking to reset the margin with any replacement.

I see them replacing the 1Ds Kark II and 30D before the 5D. There are rumours of big things happening on the 20th anniversary of EOS in March 2007, but they're nothing concrete.

That said, I'm holding off buying a second 5D before next year's wedding season to see if anything does look like coming. If it's a worthwhile upgrade then I'll get that, otherwise I'll still get the second 5D - a replacement won't make it any less good than it is today. There aren't many used on the market, but careful browsing of forums can get you a new UK one for under £1500 before cashback.

To my mind, for a wedding/social/event photographer willing to invest in good glass there isn't a better (in terms of value and IQ) body on the market today.

Note to Gordon though - Pete has 1D MkII N's which are 8MP 1.3x APS-H sensor cameras aimed at sports and press 'togs - they're about £2200 new. The 1Ds MkII is a 16MP FF body which retails for around £4500. They have the same body and confusing names but are very different animals inside.

[onefivenine]

Originally Posted by Radiohead

I'm not so sure.

But you know what I'm saying

Originally Posted by Radiohead

That said, I'm holding off buying a second 5D before next year's wedding season to see if anything does look like coming. If it's a worthwhile upgrade then I'll get that, otherwise I'll still get the second 5D

[Radiohead]

I do

[alphaomega16]

Whats the big deal with the full frame thing which would make you spend over £1000 just for that feature ?

[Jazz Monkey Jr]

Originally Posted by alphaomega16

Whats the big deal with the full frame thing which would make you spend over £1000 just for that feature ?

It's not just about full frame, the cameras are better overall, better quality, better chips (cleaner images), better BOKEH etc etc.

I would like a 5D eventually but only when I can afford it. I am building up some quality lenses first.

[mark800]

I've just upgraded from the Eos 350d to the 5d and all I can say is WOW!
I bought it for £1550 new (with £200 back from Canon), but made sure that I'd built up some pretty decent lenses first. It is a lovely camera to hold, gives a big and bright viewfinder and has a big LCD display. Oh and did I mention the brilliant images? You can zoom in and still get lots of detail. I'm sure it will be replaced at some stage, but I'm not convinced that I will need more than 13 Mpixels.

I find that some lenses come to life with the 5d. For example, portraits with the 135mm f/2L are simply awesome, particularly with the bokeh.

[petrolhead]

I would say, based on what you photograph Gordon, that the 5D would be the obvious choice as an upgrade from the 350D

You only have one life so go and buy one

[h4rri]

I went from the 350D to the 5D on impulse and I must say the difference is amazing I wasn't put off by the potential replacement, at the end of the day the 5D would still be a superb camera and a 7D would just give you another upgrade path for the future

HAve a feel of one and take a look through the veiwfinder, might make your mind up for you

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Here's the link RADIOHEAD put in the other thread. This shows difference in bokeh between aps-c and full frame.
http://www.outbackphoto.com/workshop...y07/essay.html

Apart from that fact I do find it hard looking through the small view of the 350D and it's small LCD screen. I very much like the out of focus effect though. The day at the beach in Cornwall when I took my comp winning photo was actually a real trial as I knew what I wanted but couldn't work out why it never happened, until I use dlongest length on the lens and went as far away as i could from the subject.

I think I'm going to start saving....could be a 350d and a lens and accessories on the classifieds soon....

Gordon

[Radiohead]

Can I be a pedant and point out that bokeh relates to a lenses ability to render out of focus areas, whereas what we're talking about re: FF vs APS-C sensors is depth of field. Related but different things.

[geofftelforduk]

Originally Posted by Radiohead

...

Note to Gordon though - Pete has 1D MkII N's which are 8MP 1.3x APS-H sensor cameras aimed at sports and press 'togs - they're about £2200 new. The 1Ds MkII is a 16MP FF body which retails for around £4500. They have the same body and confusing names but are very different animals inside.

Mmm, unless my eyes are deceiving me I think Pete has 2 x 1Ds MkII N's!!! These are the big boys toys at about £4500 a pop!!! Absolutley not jealous at all!!!!

[Radiohead]

Originally Posted by geofftelforduk

Mmm, unless my eyes are deceiving me I think Pete has 2 x 1Ds MkII N's!!! These are the big boys toys at about £4500 a pop!!! Absolutley not jealous at all!!!!

There is no such camera as a 1Ds MkII N.

It's either a 1Ds MkII (16MP FF) or a 1D MkII N (8MP APS-H 1.3x crop) . I know that Pete has the latter - the 1Ds would not be the right camera for what he shoots, anymore than the 5D was.

1Ds MarkII

16.7 MP full frame CMOS sensor
4 fps
32 frame continuous shooting

Aimed at wedding/studio/fashion/advertising

1D MkII N

8.2 MP CMOS sensor
8.5 fps/48 JPEG image burst
45-point AF

Aimed at press/sports

[geofftelforduk]

Originally Posted by Radiohead

There is no such camera as a 1Ds MkII N.

It's either a 1Ds MkII (16MP FF) or a 1D MkII N (8MP APS-H 1.3x crop) . I know that Pete has the latter - the 1Ds would not be the right camera for what he shoots, anymore than the 5D was.

Mmm, thats what I thought!! Think there is a signature change required here then!!

[Radiohead]

Originally Posted by geofftelforduk

Mmm, thats what I thought!! Think there is a signature change required here then!!

[monkeyleader]

Originally Posted by h4rri

I went from the 350D to the 5D on impulse and I must say the difference is amazing I wasn't put off by the potential replacement, at the end of the day the 5D would still be a superb camera and a 7D would just give you another upgrade path for the future

HAve a feel of one and take a look through the veiwfinder, might make your mind up for you

and theres me thinking the main difference to be had with photos was with the lens choice - I'd love to see two photos taken with the same lens but one with the 350D and one with say the 5D -

When I first got the 350D I was like - hey everyone complains about it being too small - its not. Now however that Im shooting in manual mode and have to play with the settings while Im framing the shot I see what they mean.

[Magslad]

Can I be a pedant and point out that bokeh relates to a lenses ability to render out of focus areas, whereas what we're talking about re: FF vs APS-C sensors is depth of field. Related but different things

NOW the thread makes sense to me!! Couldn't work out whether I was just being thick last night, but couldn't see the relationship between full frame/cropped and bokeh. Cheers for clarifying.

[h4rri]

Originally Posted by monkeyleader

and theres me thinking the main difference to be had with photos was with the lens choice - I'd love to see two photos taken with the same lens but one with the 350D and one with say the 5D -

When I first got the 350D I was like - hey everyone complains about it being too small - its not. Now however that Im shooting in manual mode and have to play with the settings while Im framing the shot I see what they mean.

I'll stick the 24-105 on a 350D and the 5D at the weekend and get some comparison shots then

Oh and if you find the 350D a bit small then grab the BG-E3, superb bit of kit and makes the camera much more handleable [making up words again ]

[mark800]

Here's a side-by-side comparison of size (taken on a rubbish camera) between a 350D and 5D.

[mark800]

and the difference in size of the LCD screens.

[Bristol Pete]

I really thought long and hard about keeping my 5D but I needed to finance one of my Mark II n's.

Personally, I think that the PQ from the 5D is in another league and certainly head and shoulders above the 350 and the 30D with respect to all owners. You are talking about a £2k machine here.

I fully intend to get another one as and when, but will wait until any announcements made next year.

Pete.

[richard plumb]

I thought DOF wasn't affected by the focal length multiplier?

I thought that the only difference was that a 'crop' camera is giving you a literal crop from what would have been the FF image. So any perspective compression, DOF etc was the same, you're just getting less image blown up.

???