[electrolyte]

Had a play with my mates Canon 20D last night as I am tempted to enter the world of DSLR.

It was the first time I'd tried out a DSLR and I was very impressed with a number of things (eg shutter speed, continuous shooting, full manual controls etc) but there appeared to be one major disadvantage compared to my canon Ixus 430 - you can't take a photo using the LCD. My mate assured me that there was no way this could be done. Is this true? It would really put me off buying a 20D or any DSLR for that matter...

I find it really difficult to use a view finder as I wear glasses. I always end up pushing my glasses closer to my face and smudge the lenses meaning that i have to clean my glasses more regulary. I know that I could take my glasses off and adjust the focus on the view finder but I am almost blind without them!

The 20D also seemed to have a VERY complicated OS compared to my 430 as well. Why can't all the options be viewed on the LCD rather than splitting them across the LCD on the back and the digital display on top??

Basically what I'm kind of asking is tell me that why it would be a good idea to spend over a grand on a 20D plus lenses!!

[rct]

If not being able to use the LCD is a problem why not look at a 'prosumer' model such as the Minolta A2 - SLR type lens (albeit not interchangeable) and manual controls. I haven't looked back since I bought my 7Hi a while ago. Once I've mastered all the features, I'll look at a D-SLR

[dood]

well here we go again, the DSLR vs compact debate - loads has been said on this already if you search.

The extended eyepiece could help te bespectacled and long-nosed amongst us.

The lack of LCD viewfinder is generally not an issue with DSLR users who want the feel of a "proper" camera.

As for the last sentence in your post: this really is the crux of the DSLR vs compact debate - the "plus lenses" part rules out most compacts and highlights their limitations.

[MPK]

I guess it's probably not that easy technologically, otherwise they would do it. Even Pros (e.g. Paparazzi) sometimes need to hold the camera up while shooting and would no doubt be grateful to use the screen as viewfinder. With a compact camera the viewfinder does not exactly see what the sensor is seeing, but on the other hand the sensor is unblocked and connected to the LCD. An SLR has a mirror which projects the picture from the lens to the viewfinder and blocks the sensor as it is behind the mirror. When you press the shutter, the mirror gets lifted up briefly and opens the path for the sensor. This is also why you can't see the image while pressing the shutter.

I guess the only thing they could do is have a choice between viewfinder and LCD as they could simply have the mirror lifted up and thereby opening the path for the sensor. But you certainly can't have both simultaneously, that woud require a completely different SLR system.

[sorbiegunner]

I think you can buy viewfinder correction lenses with dslrs to allow you to remove your specs whilst shooting (you could with good old slrs at any rate). Using the lcd as a viewfinder is something I just can't get into at all (my camera can do it but I can't). If you can get used to using the viewfinder as a viewfinder (even with a compact, wearing your glasses) you will find it (a) a lot more comfortable position, (b) a lot easier to aim and (c) the biggy, you will dicover that your camera is a lot sharper than you thought by eliminating camera shake at normal shutter speeds and minimise it at slower speeds, it'll feel like an upgrade.

[mr jones]

i wear glasses and after a while you dont miss it at all. its one of the functions of a compact i thought id miss but really didnt once i got a dslr.


i find the controls dead easy to use,

SHOT settings - all changable via the LCD top display, ISO, shutter, aperture, drive,etc, all things that dont require viewing on the main LCD but may need changing by the user at the press off a button and the click of a rotary dial. i can switch between most of the settings without looking at the camera (similar to my knowledge of the extensive settings off my cars stereo without so much as a glance), or with a quick cusory glance at the lcd with a tap of the light button.

camera settings - via the LCD menu - these are digital specific settings - picture settings, etc etc etc those that you dont need to change on the hoof - infact i barely use the menu when im out shooting apart from hitting the format function once ive slipped a fresh CF card in. apart from that this menu setting inst used at all. similar to the fact my camera has never been used in anything other than P, AV, Tv, M modes

[Johndm]

Originally Posted by dood

a "proper" camera.
.

Enough said....

[electrolyte]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Originally Posted by sorbiegunner

If you can get used to using the viewfinder as a viewfinder (even with a compact, wearing your glasses) you will find it (a) a lot more comfortable position, (b) a lot easier to aim and (c) the biggy, you will dicover that your camera is a lot sharper than you thought by eliminating camera shake at normal shutter speeds and minimise it at slower speeds, it'll feel like an upgrade.

That's a really good idea, I will try to do this more often.

[RobertP]

20D... I'd just say that what mrjones said about easy access to the controls is the key. All the things you might choose to change from shot to shot or situation to situation are right there at your fingertips - which means you tend to use them and learn them.
Going from the 20D back to my Oly 5050 I find the menu system on that much harder to use and just set it to auto when I used it recently.

[seany]

I used the viewfinder most of the time when i had my compacts. LCD's let you down in the sun you hold the camera more steady when you use the view finder. 20D is a dream to use, i wish you could see the ISO in the viewfinder but otherwise it's a dream

[mr jones]

the 20D is easier to use than my guitar amplifier....... no seriously!

[seany]

It's not as easy to use as my triangle though i must admit.

[senu]

Another advantage of the viewfinder :try framing your shot in very bright light with an LCD. Seriously ,you can get used to not having an LCD to frame and the 350D viewfinder has dioptric adjustment for people like me who wear specs. Not needing the LCD also extends battery life.

[paulc1]

the fuji s3 pro dslr allows the lcd screen to be used as a viewfinder...S3 pro or 20d?

[seany]

You can buy an addon screen for the 20D, i came acroos one the other day. I think it was about £117 it was more for when you're shooing low with a tripod ect, saves you getting down in the dirt

[tonka]

Originally Posted by seany

You can buy an addon screen for the 20D, i came acroos one the other day. I think it was about £117 it was more for when you're shooing low with a tripod ect, saves you getting down in the dirt

yeah, think there's one reviewed in this months digital photography mag..?

it's the mag that comes with the free book and cd...

[seany]

Not sure mate, i saw it on the net. Handy for when you can't get down low it looked pretty good

[alastair]

Originally Posted by paulc1

the fuji s3 pro dslr allows the lcd screen to be used as a viewfinder...S3 pro or 20d?

I think this is the one which is then only in Black and White and you cant take a picture in this mode.

[ASH1]

Originally Posted by seany

Not sure mate, i saw it on the net. Handy for when you can't get down low it looked pretty good

I think this is what your on about Seany.

http://www.zigview.co.uk/

[Radiohead]

Personally I've always struggled to frame anything properly with an LCD and would take a viewfinder every single time. I wear glasses all the time and it's not an issue at all.

[seany]

That's the one ash

[mr jones]

i agree with radiohead on this as a fellow fulltime specky git!

[bodmin636]

I wear glasses all the time and don't find it a problem, which is good really cause the adjustment on the eyepiece on my 350D can't adjust enough for my bad eyes!!

[mr jones]

Originally Posted by bodmin636

I wear glasses all the time and don't find it a problem, which is good really cause the adjustment on the eyepiece on my 350D can't adjust enough for my bad eyes!!

same here, but then again i would expect it to, my eyesight is well outside the 'normal'correction of a camera(rightly so) as i wouldnt expect it to cope with my eye retardedness (cornuponia (sp?) - yes children i have rugby ball shaped eyes)

[aliflack]

what's the problem - all canon dslr's come with a standard dioptric adjustment screen of +/- 3, and you can buy alternative screens for those with weaker eyesight...

[dood]

Mr Jones, I think the condition may be keratoconus - cone shaped cornea.

[mr jones]

Originally Posted by dood

Mr Jones, I think the condition may be keratoconus - cone shaped cornea.

thats the one, sorry i was intoximocated and i couldnt remember the correct term :D

[Johndm]

You might want a Canon 20Da....
The specialized EOS 20Da which was at first introduced as a Japan Only model is now available in the rest of the world. The EOS 20Da is identical to the EOS 20D except for a modification to the low-pass filter. This camera is best suited to astrophotography as well as InfraRed photography (not according to Canon USA). It would be possible to use it as a normal camera but would require an external IR cut filter. In addition the camera has a partially transmissive mirror which enables live focusing on the LCD monitor (this can only be done for short times and requires the mirror to be locked up).

[Radiohead]

And it's over £1500....

not so

[Johndm]

Originally Posted by Radiohead

And it's over £1500....

not so

The price to pay if the LCD is that important??...