[mjw123]

I know compacts get short shrift on here but this new model from Panni must give the entry level DSLR's something to worry about.......

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0507/05...sonic_fz30.asp

Any thoughts ? - a £550 it ain't gonna be cheap but it's a serious bit of kit. Personally the FZ20 will be fine for my requirements and I may upgrade to one now the new daddy is on the way.

[mr jones]

yes, but the reason alot of people buy DSLR's is the fact that your not stuck with a factory fitted lens, makng the camera rediculously versetile compared to a compact.

a lens that can fill anywhere between 35mm and 420mm simply cannot be as good throughout its range as a selection of interchangeable lenses. jack of all trades master of none etc. it might be a brilliant prosumer camera but a DSLR it isnt, so how it can beat a dslr at being a dslr i dont know.



either way looks like a damngood camera

[technofan]

I had an FZ20 and it was a great all-rounder, I did not get on very well with the EVF and it was a little too noisy above ISO 200. The new FZ30 looks like another winner to me

Image Stab is a great feature on these compacts...I wish ALL DSLRs came with internal image stab as standard....ultrasonic dust removal would be good too

[dejongj]

Don't think there is anything to be worried about...Life is too much fun to worry about compact (well it hardly is, isn't it...) versus dSLR...They do serve different purposes as already stated...Neither wrong or right, all depends on what you want...More choice is good I think...

Just read the preview. It looks excellent. This will definitely tempt me to upgrade if and when the price comes down.

[technofan]

Wow...looks like they have doubled the number of pixels in the EVF This should make manual focus much more accurate as it was not easy to tell if the focus was spot on with the FZ20. Internal lens zooming and more pixels on a new swivel LCD!!! Viewfinder is now in line with the center of the lens!!

These are great improvements and this could prove to be all the camera anyone could hope for in a zoom compact. Well done Panasonic....MASSIVE improvements upon the current FZ range

[mjw123]

Originally Posted by mr jones

it might be a brilliant prosumer camera but a DSLR it isnt, so how it can beat a dslr at being a dslr i dont know.

either way looks like a damngood camera

I think what i'm getting at is now the FZ30 has pushed the bar even higher with this incredible piece of kit. It really can do everything (and probably pretty well) - Macro, Wide, Long Zoom, fast, slow, long exposure, 8Mb, RAW, Incredible image stabilisation, Hotshoe etc.... Because of this fact I think the gap between this camera and the cheapest DSLR's is getting very small.

Would there really be a noticeable difference in picture quality ? - i'm not so sure.

Either way guys you've goota take your hat of to Panasonic for been bold enough to produce something like this - good effort !

Looking forward to seeing some results.

Guys - I'm not winding anyone up here but I would like to know your answers.....Why should a low end DSLR always produce better results than something like this - or should it at all ? Is it the case that in an average photographer the FZ30 would probably give better results but for someone who really knows their stuff they could get the extra quality from the low end DSLR ?

[Johndm]

Originally Posted by mjw123

Guys - I'm not winding anyone up here but I would like to know your answers.....Why should a low end DSLR always produce better results than something like this - or should it at all ? Is it the case that in an average photographer the FZ30 would probably give better results but for someone who really knows their stuff they could get the extra quality from the low end DSLR ?

Not wishing to start another 'compact vs DSLR' war.....BUT

The DSLR 'should' still be better....better sensor, better glass, better processor, you actually see what you photographing etc etc.

Jack of all trades...master of none...

I know its a real pain to carry around a big bag full of lenses and accessories, and there will always be the size/weight/convenience debate, but I'd wager that armed with this new compact, I'd get far less 'keepers' or acceptances onto Airliners net than with my DSLR and lenses.

My main lens cost more than the camera... (300D, Canon 100-400L)

Thats what its all about...getting the best image into the camera to start with.

[technofan]

If the lens is good I think this will be an awesome camera...I'm not biaised either way...let the camera speak for itself!!

[Peakoverload]

Yeah, it's not all about resolution either.

A 6MP DSLR WILL produce better images than a 6MP compact. The reason for this is two fold.

1. Sensor size. The smaller the sensor the more prone to noise they are and compacts have smaller sensors then DSLR's

2. Resolution of the lens. I cant remember the figures off the top of my head but an SLR lens will resolve MANY more lines than a compact cameras lens ever could. Just take a look at the size of the front of the average SLR lens and compare it to the size of the front of the average compact lens. The SLR lens is much bigger, therefore more light coming in, therefore more lines of resolution being resolved onto the sensor, therefore more definition in the final image.

[technofan]

It's very easy to get into an argument over this so all i can say is...

I AM THE WORLDS BEST PHOTOGRAPHER....so there

(stands well back)

Surely it would depend on the quality of the lens. I wouldn't agree that necessarily to be the case with a cheap and nasty lens or even some of the DSLR kit lenses.

Agree about the sensor size BTW especially at higher ISO's.

Anyway, as technofan said lets not get into another argument.

[mjw123]

Originally Posted by Peakoverload

2. Resolution of the lens..... Just take a look at the size of the front of the average SLR lens and compare it to the size of the front of the average compact lens. The SLR lens is much bigger, therefore more light coming in, therefore more lines of resolution being resolved onto the sensor, therefore more definition in the final image.

I wouldn't class this as an average compact lens though (see attachment)

[technofan]

If I didn't have my 350 I can tell you I would be chomping at the bit to get a good look at the FZ30

[mjw123]

Fair play to you technofan - good of you to acknowledge the qualities of this super piece of kit, with it's cheap and nasty Leica lens

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by mjw123

Guys - I'm not winding anyone up here but I would like to know your answers.....Why should a low end DSLR always produce better results than something like this - or should it at all ? Is it the case that in an average photographer the FZ30 would probably give better results but for someone who really knows their stuff they could get the extra quality from the low end DSLR ?

This is nothing to do with compact versus dSLR, there is no reason why a low end dSLR always produces better results...Not the key word is always, don't think anyone owning a dSLR is stupid enough to pretend that...It's horses-for-causes mate and probably even more owners preference...

[kenlynch]

It may seem like a good lens in 35mm equivalent terms, but that sensor is only 7.2mm wide. This gives you a crop factor of just under 5 times, which means the actual lens focal length is around 7-80mm (which explains how they can get a 400mm lens to do f3.7).

[Radiohead]

It's a very impressive looking camera but I'll be most interested to see what Panasonic have done with the noise that plagued the FZ20. 8MP on a similar sized CCD could be an engineering challenge.

It'll also being going head to head with the new 15x Samsung.....

If, like the FZ20, anything above ISO200 is useless then there's no way people will be junking in DSLR's.

My D70 is safe, regardless.

[seany]

I doubt that it would make many if anybody sell a dslr to buy one. I might make people who are thinking of buying a dlsr buy one though. Big fan of the panasonic zooms

But my lens collection is something i'll take with me for years to come.

That's always why i'd have a dslr


Anything that can get people in to photography is a good thing

[JohnG]

Nice looking camera indeed
Hopefully cameras such as this one might force the dSLRs down in price a bit to compete ?

[RobertP]

Aside from the logical analysis of what does the job best, there is another factor that sways me to prefer the dslr route.

I actually like the physical side of handling a large heavy camera and lenses. There is feeling of applying quality engineering to the task in hand. I am an engineer and appreciate things that have been skillfully designed and manufactured. No scientific justification or technical reasoning needed - I like using quality kit.

If I make a bad picture - so be it... I enjoyed the process of getting it. I also have enough information to know if a new toy for my collection would have done the job better or if its just down to me.

I came to AVforums originally looking for info on how to get decent surround sound after buying a new TV and an all-in-one dvd/amp panasonic thing. I upgraded once.... then upgraded some more by buying single items that were better than my first choice - but still had the core items. DSLR is a similar experience - modular items that you can pick and choose..mix and match.

All part of the fun to me. A compact is the all-in-one.... you still get to watch the film - but you can't decide to change the sub if you want a better one.

[seany]

Originally Posted by JohnG

Nice looking camera indeed
Hopefully cameras such as this one might force the dSLRs down in price a bit to compete ?

Personally i think what they'll actually have to do is drop the price to stop people buying dslrs john.

£549 will get you the 350 with the kit lens almost.

[JohnG]

£549 will get you the 350 with the kit lens almost.

Blimey, I didn't realise that. I thought it was in the high £600s for one of them.

[mr jones]

Originally Posted by RobertP

Aside from the logical analysis of what does the job best, there is another factor that sways me to prefer the dslr route.

I actually like the physical side of handling a large heavy camera and lenses. There is feeling of applying quality engineering to the task in hand. I am an engineer and appreciate things that have been skillfully designed and manufactured. No scientific justification or technical reasoning needed - I like using quality kit.

If I make a bad picture - so be it... I enjoyed the process of getting it. I also have enough information to know if a new toy for my collection would have done the job better or if its just down to me.

I came to AVforums originally looking for info on how to get decent surround sound after buying a new TV and an all-in-one dvd/amp panasonic thing. I upgraded once.... then upgraded some more by buying single items that were better than my first choice - but still had the core items. DSLR is a similar experience - modular items that you can pick and choose..mix and match.

All part of the fun to me. A compact is the all-in-one.... you still get to watch the film - but you can't decide to change the sub if you want a better one.

agreed

[mr jones]

Originally Posted by JohnG

Blimey, I didn't realise that. I thought it was in the high £600s for one of them.

flatmates dad just bought one for about £550

[seany]

Originally Posted by RobertP

Aside from the logical analysis of what does the job best, there is another factor that sways me to prefer the dslr route.

I actually like the physical side of handling a large heavy camera and lenses. There is feeling of applying quality engineering to the task in hand. I am an engineer and appreciate things that have been skillfully designed and manufactured. No scientific justification or technical reasoning needed - I like using quality kit.

If I make a bad picture - so be it... I enjoyed the process of getting it. I also have enough information to know if a new toy for my collection would have done the job better or if its just down to me.

I came to AVforums originally looking for info on how to get decent surround sound after buying a new TV and an all-in-one dvd/amp panasonic thing. I upgraded once.... then upgraded some more by buying single items that were better than my first choice - but still had the core items. DSLR is a similar experience - modular items that you can pick and choose..mix and match.

All part of the fun to me. A compact is the all-in-one.... you still get to watch the film - but you can't decide to change the sub if you want a better one.

I came here 4 years ago now because (diff user name) i was in to HC to Rob. The amount of debates i've (and sure they still go on) seen over the years between people with all in one's and people with full separates must be 100's

Pretty much the same reason why i went Dslr is why i have separates to.

[mjw123]

Never thought of it like that guys but I'll agree it's a fair comparision.

However this just might be the all-in-one that finally produces the same musical quality as some TEAC separates....

Obviously the main big difference is your Hi-Fi kit is static...I dare say if we had to lug loads of spearates around we soon get fed up, and tolerate a technics all-in-one.

At least it's good the DSLR owners are taking note of this camera for what it is - a very competent piece of hardware.

Much as Panni have addressed many issues that may have put off high end users I have to agree the high iso & noise issue is still likely to be a factor here no doubt.

I think ultimately in the same hands in good light there's probably not going to be much difference in the results produced between this and 350 with the bog standard lens. Maybe we could set up the test if anyone on here decides to buy the FZ30 and knows a nearby 350 user.

[mjw123]

Wow - I put a similar post on dpreview.com in the panni forum and handbags really started to fly...makes us lot seem dosile ....well worth a read if you have a few mins.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=14313284

[seany]

Stick it here http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1019 and here http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1034 FLAMED

The kit lens i got with 20D, well i never use it now. There would be no point having an slr and using a single lens, least of all the kit lens.

I'd get the Z20 over the 30 to be honest.

[witters]

mr jones,

Where did your flatmates dad get one from please?