[Johndm]

For those unaware, Nikon just announced the new D50 and D70s.

D50:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0504/05042004nikond50.asp

D70s:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0504/05042003nikond70s.asp

Looks like current D70 users will be able to get some of the added features of the D70s by upgrading firmware (not yet released):
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0504/05...70firmware.asp

[seany]

Originally Posted by seany

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0504/05042004nikond50.asp D50

stats for 70 70s 50 http://www.dpreview.com/news/0504/05042003nikond70s.asp

Na na na na na

[Johndm]

Originally Posted by seany

Na na na na na

Thats quite enough Nikon talk...thread closed??..

[seany]

[Mod comment]

I agree

Not quite closed! The D70s addresses a couple of cosmetic issues, but doesn't do anything about the viewfinder and lack of MF capability. There's a big hole in Nikon's DSLR range between the (arguably?) affordable D70 and the D2H/D2Hs/D2X. I'll wait and see if a D200 or similar is announced. No offence to Canon, but I've got Nikon glass and I'm not in a hurry to change systems.

[Radiohead]

You big girls.

Can't we all just get along. I like Nikon and Canon, but love my D70.

:D

[dejongj]

@MartynK: What's you problem with the viewfinder? And also I don't understand you problem with lack of MF, is that Manual Focus? I use manual focus...

BTW I think it is great that Nikon is bringing out a new firmware for D70 owners...But then again there isn't that much new about the D70s except for a .2 inch bigger screen and a new battery...

[seany]

Nikon is a great camera company. None of us want that to turn in to a Canon V Nikon debate i'm sure . I just can't see from a marketing point of view how they'll get as many up graders when you can do a lot of the changes through a firmware update.

It is a business after all, and i can't personally see why a single 70 owner would want to upgrade to the 70's. That just can't be a good business strategy

[dejongj]

Seany: I think you are approaching this wrong...The D70s is not an upgrade to the D70...Just see it as a refresh, a face-lift with some software updates...

The 300D to 350D had some more advantages and possibly could be classed as an upgrade, still I would have problems with calling that an upgrade as well...It is still in the same consumer class of camera, so still only a refresh...

[seany]

Upgrade refresh.. a rose by any other name...


That still to me does not make good business sense to spend all that money on production of what is more or less the same camera. Having almost two identical models out at the same times could well mean that each cancels the other out. I just can't see them keeping the 70D in production for much longer.


Making fine cameras is something Nikon is great at, it is a business though. I’d like to think that Nikon want every single 70D owner to keep theirs and have a wave of new owner get the 70s. But anybody who would buy such a camera will know (or should know) their cameras, and simply buy the 70D. Only if there’s much of a price difference of course.

[dejongj]

Don't know what you do Seany, but to me it makes perfect business sense...They don't have to spend 'all that money' on production as as you say it is the basically the same 'ageing' camera...

Keeping the D70 (get the model right **smile wink**) in production is a new element you have introduced to this conversation...Where did you get that information from, that is not the case...

There is current stock out there, of-course people should buy that stock....However Nikon could not justify any longer to sell that Camera at the full retail. Hence you can get such a good deal on it...

Now they bring out a 'new' model which they can sell at retail (for a while). But here is the trick...It isn't really a new model is it! Yes it has got a larger viewfinder and a battery (you need to give the punters something) but it is the same old electronics of the outgoing model...So for little investment they can now justify the full price again and bingo nice profit margins...

I wouldn't be surprised when another model is introduced later this year after they had months of 'extra' sales....

Do you still think it makes no business sense...This is the oldest trick and text book product management...Punters fall for it every time, you, I and the couple of hands full people interested in the forums may not but that doesn't mean that Joe Public won't (and I wasn't referring to the registered member...). And that is where the real money is to be made as those people buy it at retail....

[seany]

It's just not much of a shake up, that's what bothering me. They should be pushing boundries all the time it's good for everybody. The 50 is actually the shaker in terms of what they'll offer a hole new set of users.

[Radiohead]

As a recent D70 buyer I'm quite happy that Nikon haven't just made my camera totally obsolete, but I had an idea they were "refreshing" it because of the cashback. It does seem that historically Nikon take their time with releases and that it's a band people buy into for life. If I'd had the money I would quite possibly have bought a 20D, but the D70 for under £600 with a £300 lens was too good to resist. I've now managed to build up a body and 4 lens collection for under £1150 all in. I gave the 350D a long, hard try but it was just a little too small, and the quality of the Nikon kit lens helped sway it. Let's not beat about the bush here though - the 350D, the D70, the Dynnax 7D, the 20D, the *stDS....are all very good cameras indeed.

As Seany has said though, does it matter whether people buy Canon, Nikon, Olympus....it's not what we photograph with, it's that we photograph at all that matters.

[dejongj]

Radiohead, I'm with you on that one...Who is that guy again who makes fantastic photo's with very cheap P&S compatct camera's...

Seany: I'm with you indeed that it is not much of a shake up, can't argue that...But neither is the D50...I think it is priced too near the D70s and yet again no major difference, just that little bit more consumer than hobbyist....That is the one that I wonder about making business sense as too me it seems to be pitched a little bit too much at the crowds who buy on the basis of how many megapixels are provided...

[seany]

The 50 is the one to draw the money in that's for sure. It's going to sell by the bucket load it's a gate way camera in many ways.


I had hold of a D100 for a good while know nikon make fine cameras. When i think about how much i sold it for on here with all the kit i cringe. My pal insisted though and as it was left to him he never wanted reminding of it so i could not buy it!!

Has to be the best bargain of the forum EVER!
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showt...ght=nikon+D100

[dejongj]

That is surprisingly low for the full kit...But then again some the answers were a bit evasive...I guess the goods are fine, but I would have walked away based upon the vague answers....

[seany]

It was me that sold it thats my partner holding the camera in the shots. Tony checked the serial out to make sure it was stolen before hand (witters) was 100% gen and in perfect con.

[Johndm]

Originally Posted by Radiohead

You big girls.

Can't we all just get along. I like Nikon and Canon, but love my D70.

:D

Yeahbutnobutyeahbutnobut.....

Just joking...... How about a Sigma vs Minolta thread..

[witters]

T'was indeed a bargain, especially when I only paid £600 in the end

Has to be said the lenses had seen better days but the rest of the gear was fine.

Even got a free laptop carrying case as well as Seany's hospitality.

[seany]

Oh yeah and the air blower!!!


Was not into slrs then mate, was no lens expert Still not

Dejongj: Sorry I didn't respond before - just too busy. IMHO the viewfinder is far too small/dark, and the camera doesn't have a proper focussing screen. I know you can, use MF (sort of) in conjunction with the focus confirmation light, but it's no substitute for the big, bright viewfinders and interchangeable screens we took for granted with film SLRs in the 1970s - instant, visual confirmation of focus at any distance, including macro. AF & AE have their applications - which can be very useful - but I'm not crazy about auto anything, and prefer manual control most of the time. Ideal would be an F2/3, or maybe an F100, with the digital electronics transplanted! The D70s and the firmware upgrade are a nonsense - tinkering with inconsequential issues.

[dejongj]

MartynK: The size of the viewfinder I think there is not much you can do about it...Really a 'drawback' of the size of these camera's....What is it, a multipier of 1.5x smaller which is actually one of the better culprits...As such you may have to save up for a larger format digital SLR...
Regarding the dimness...Did the one you looked true have batteries in it and was it switched on? That is the only reason why it may seem dim as the overlay LCD mesh wasn't powered in such a case....

I agreed that the upgrades are nonsense, but only to a select few small group of people...The majority falls for that marketing trick time and time again...

dejongj: Sorry I didn't respond before - just too much else to do. IMHO the D70 viewfinder is far too small/dark, and the camera doesn't have a proper focusing screen. I know you can work around MF with the focus confirmation light, but this seems to be a pretty poor substitute for the big, bright SLR viewfinders and interchangeable screens we took for granted 30 years ago. Instant, visual, focus confirmation at all distances, including macro. MF and AE are great for some applications, but I'm not crazy about auto anything and prefer manual controls most of the time.

I'd probably hesitate to post this on dpreview, where too many threads are deteriorating into ugly, ill mannered flame wars - someone would be sure to accuse me of thinking I know better than Nikon's engineers - but my ideal would probably be an F2/F3 or, possibly, an F100 with the digital bits transplanted into it. Fantasy, OK?

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by martynk

I'd probably hesitate to post this on dpreview, where too many threads are deteriorating into ugly, ill mannered flame wars - someone would be sure to accuse me of thinking I know better than Nikon's engineers - but my ideal would probably be an F2/F3 or, possibly, an F100 with the digital bits transplanted into it. Fantasy, OK?

LOL...So it is the same as here then...Try dipping your toe into some of the AV Amp or subwoofer discussions....It's a nightmare with too many people owning too few of the systems themselves and just repeating what they read...And I haven't even started about the moderators/admins yet...

[fraggle]

Originally Posted by seany

Nikon is a great camera company. None of us want that to turn in to a Canon V Nikon debate i'm sure . I just can't see from a marketing point of view how they'll get as many up graders when you can do a lot of the changes through a firmware update.

It is a business after all, and i can't personally see why a single 70 owner would want to upgrade to the 70's. That just can't be a good business strategy

Totally disagree with this.

I don't see the D70s as an upgrade from the D70 at all.

Its a facelift model and I'm positive the D70 is probably nearing the end of production to be replaced by the D70s, which has a couple of little changes at roundabout the same price (pre £100/£50 cashback offer)

I think its a sterling service that Nikon have offered of allowing us D70 owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge (?) to give us nearly all the D70s benefits. Thats *definitely* a way of ensuring my repeat business.

Good customer relations, and keeping new Nikon owners happy.

[fraggle]

Originally Posted by seany

It's just not much of a shake up, that's what bothering me. They should be pushing boundries all the time it's good for everybody.

Good to see someone who works for Nikons R&D department on here.

With your obvious insider knowledge of their up and coming product release schedule can you tell us what they are developing?

Seriously, for what its worth, I really wouldn't try to second guess what Nikon have up their sleeve.

D2X, D50, D70s, I bet there'll be an 8MP model in the wings, give em 3 or so months. They didn't get to be where they are now by getting the market wrong!

[Radiohead]

I'm with Fraggle.

Its refreshing to see a company offering owners of a current model firmware which pretty much gives them the latest updated model. Nikon are, by nature, a more cautious company than Canon (not least because Canon make their own sensors) but that's not a bad thing per se. I can't see that Nikon were ever expecting D70 owners to buy a D70s, abd the firmware release supports this. As I've said earlier, I see the purchase of a body as a long-term investment, with future investment going on glass. If Nikon keep bodies fresh with firmware releases then they keep current owners happy and it's not like there's much wrong with the D70 anyway.

I'd also like to know how the 350D is pushing the boundaries though - after all, they've just lobbed much of the 20D's innards into a smaller body......

[tomson]

Originally Posted by Radiohead

I'd also like to know how the 350D is pushing the boundaries though - after all, they've just lobbed much of the 20D's innards into a smaller body......

Here we go again

[Radiohead]

We Nikon owners are a minority and as such feel persecuted.

I AM JOKING.

If you search my threads you'll see countless references to my commenting on just what a good camera the 350D is, and how I would have bought the 20D had I had the cash.

[HotblackDesiato]

I think Seany's point is well made _as a Canon user_ in an ideal world i'd still like to see the "D50/70s" or whatever Nikon might roll out in the next 6months, using 10MP sensor with 9stops of dynamic range.