[fraggle]

I've just got myself a nice D70 with the 18-70mm Nikkor lense.

I'd like to get a decent tele zoom lens too, but looking at the range of lenses availble I'm more than a bit baffled...

I see people saying that lenses with wide zoom ranges are a compromise and best avoided, like the Tamron 28-300mmF/3.5-6.3 XR Di lense, true?

Also I'm confused about which lenses do what in the Nikon range (never mind the 3rd party brands)

Am I right in thinking that all AF-S, AF-I lenses do not have aparture dials as this is controled via the camera, and that AF works with these in all modes?

And for AF-G lenses, does the AF work with these in all modes?

Also the AF and AF-D lenses, AFAIK these do have the aparture dial, so the camera won't be 100% operation with respect to that? And I see from one web page that the AF-D uses the focus motor in the camera body, so I'm doubting that AF will work on the D70 with these lenses?
Link

I've also read that AF doesn't really work below f5.6 due to too little light, true?

I'm basically after something like 70~300 (or 70~200 ish), F4 or thereabouts (can't afford F2.4 yet!) with the same optical quality as the 18~70mm lense the camera came with.

Second hand or new, what do people wot know a lot more than me know? Help!!

PS As I'm new to decent SLR photography, I sort of expect to buy a cheap(ish) tele lense and then in a few years flog it and buy a decent one once I know whats what and what I like doing.

[owain_thomas]

Hi fraggle, I'm in a very similar situation to you. I got my D70 a couple of months ago and have had to learn a LOT recently to get upto speed with it all.

As I understand it the abbreviations mean the following:

AF-S = Silent wave focussing, uses magnets to do very fast, very quiet focussing.

AF-I = Internal movement of the lens elements so that the filter doesn't turn as the lens focuses.

G-Lenses = these lenses don't have physical, manual control of the aperture they are controlled by the aperture setting on the body of the camera. All AF-G lenses will autofocus with your D70.

As you've got one of the very good kit lenses I would suggest getting something which operates above the range you've already got. I recently picked up one of the AF-G 70-300 nikkor lenses ( http://www.jessops.com/search/viewpr...WORD_SEARCH=N& ) and its great. Its pretty cheap and cheerful (I got mine here in the US - where I'm living until next monday - for about 60 quid) but it works well and has given me some pretty sharp pictures so far.

A couple of caveats: It is not the same quality as the kit lens so don't expect it to be, it doesn't have ED glass, is not AF-S so makes some noise when focussing and takes longer to focus. Also, as it is not and AF-I it twists the filter as it focuses, so circular polarisers need to be adjusted after you focus, not before. It is a "slow" lens, even at its shortest focal length it is only rated at f4.5 so a tripod is necessary for a lot of things. Having said all that, for the money I think it's hard to grumble, its a great introductary lens and will allow me to see whether it's worth saving up for a hideously expensive vibration-reduction nikkor in the future!

hope that helps clear the muddy waters a bit,
owain

[Radiohead]

From what I've read the Tamron lenses are very well-received and well priced. This month's Digital Photographer has a small test of 4 telephotos and the Tamron in the test (28-300 Di IIRC) comes in just behind the Nikon 18-200 (again I may have the lens wrong) but is a useful amount cheaper.

I'm agonising over a longer lens as well as a decent 1:1 Macro.

[Radiohead]

Hell - that 70-300 G lens is just £80 here

http://www.digitalfirst.co.uk/ProdSD...es&ProdID=1536

Can't go wrong for that money can you.

[Pink Fairy]

I've got the 70-300mm AFD-ED version, it's not fastest in terms of AF speed and it's 'ED' badge is a bit deceptive in that Nikon only use the ED glass on one of it's elements... still, it's optically superior to the standard version but it's being ripped apart when put in front of my D2x, a fair bit of vertical CA (colour fringing) evident... although fine on lesser dslr's.
At the prices that are being shown for the standard version, that looks a better buy.

cheers,
Andy

[fraggle]

Thanks for everyones help so far.

That price for the 30-700 G is damn cheap, same as importing from HK on Ebay

I've found a cheap 30-300D ED lense here

From what you say Andy and Owain I'd be better off looking for a faster zoom tele lense. Hmm, back to ebay and the manufacturers sites :-)

[owain_thomas]

If you want something a bit of a step up from the nikon lens then it might be worth having a look at tokina lenses, I asked a similair question on the ephotozine website and was recommended the following lenses as middle ground between the cheap nikkor one and the more expensive versions:

Tokina ATX 80-200 f2.8 - £430

Tokina ATX 80-400mm II f4-5.6 - £360

HTH
owain

ps still reckon it might be worth getting hold of one the 70-300G's if you can get it for less than 100 quid, it seems worth that to me so far.

[fraggle]

Ok, made my mind up at last

After spending weeks on EBay looking at Nikon 80-200 f2.8D AF and AF-S and watching their prices sail right past what I would call reasonable money I gave up on them.
(I'm currently watching an old single touch AF one go right past £300, and I know that there's an identical one, A1 condition in Jessops, S/H that they want £120 for - EBayers are *mad*!!)

So had a re-think and I've now got one of the Nikon 70-300 f4-5.6G lenses that Radiohead posted the link to (thanks mate! )

And by tomorrow I should also have a Tamron 90mm Di F2.8 macro for closeup work. (£295 from the UK)

I've also ordered an SB-600 off a HK EBay seller for £91 + £25 p&p, cheaper than anywhere in the UK, and cheaper than all used SB-600s I've seen on EBay.

That lot will cover anything I can think of that I might like to do, for not much money (well, OK, lets say the lenses could have cost me *loads* more!) and when I get a feel for what I really like doing I can save and get a higher quality lense to do that if I feel the need to.

So, now I've (nearly) got the bits its play, play play

[Radiohead]

Fraggle - I'll be interested to see what you think of the 70-300. I returned mine yesterday (ahem) after a good play over the last week or so. It was too soft over 200mm for me, and I found a fair amount of CA, again over 200. Up to 200mm it was fine though.

I went for a Sigma 70-300 APO Super II instead and initial shots suggest it is happier over 200mm and seems to lock on a little quicker instead. It was £160 from Warehouse Express so is twice the cost of the Nikkor though. I ddin't bother going for the ED Nikkor at £260 or so as reports suggest it's not much different to the G version. The Sigma also has a macro function offering 1:2 when used between 200mm and 300mm which will be handy unitl I can afford the Tamron you're ordering.

The Tamron is a cracking lens - you should be well happy with that. I tried one last week and it's very nice indeed. Couldn't afford it now though.

[lurcher]

Going on holiday to states at end of June wont have much time for shopping as I will be fishing the St Lawrence river up in New York state. If I get chance to visit a Wall Mart or Airport camera shop what savings could I expect to make on a lens for the D70 ? Poss 70-300.

Thanks

[Radiohead]

Which one? Sigma, Nikkor G or ED, or Tamron?.....

[owain_thomas]

I got my Nikor 70-300G in the US for the equivalent of £60 delivered to my door. When I went into a camera shop in Denver they were retailing at about $160 (more like £90). If you want a real bargain it will depend how long you are out there and if you can have it delivered somewhere (can't imagine having it delivered to a hotel would be problem, best ask first though). If you are thinking of doing it try www.adorama.com that's who I used and they were very quick.

Owain

[paulc1]

when I was in new york last year (Manhattan), I was flabberghasted at the cost of camera gear, and in alot of cases, after you have added the tax, it doesn't work out much cheaper, if cheaper at all,..and then there is the warranty, be sure that it is international.
I bought my 300G nikkor lense on Ebay from a Canadian company, and after the import tax, handling fees etc, it was about a tenner cheaper than if I had bought it in the UK.

[wsurfa]

sigma 70-200 2.8 HSM is the best value high performance zoom lens. Possibly not quite as sharp as the NIkkor 70-200 2.8VR at 2.8 but still very good and c 400-550GBP dependant on source

[fraggle]

I've seen a lot of comments say that the Nikon 80-200 was the sharpest lense, and the early versions of it were the best.

Also that the latest VR 70-200 isn't as good sharpness wise.

Anyway, after having a little play with the 70-300G today the hardest thing I found was eliminating camera shake! If the shutter speed is slower than about 1/150 every shot has it to an extent. More practise and steadier hands needed!

[paulc1]

thats why the 300G is so cheap, because it isn't as fast as the others so the D70 needs a slower shutter speed to let in adequate light, but at a focal length of 300mm you would need something steady to get a perfectly sharp picture, even with the better quality lenses...I bought the 300G and am reasonably happy with it, to see its capabilities, try putting it on a tripod, and setting the self timer, and I'm sure that you will be happy enough with the resulting image.

[fraggle]

Originally Posted by paulc1

thats why the 300G is so cheap, because it isn't as fast as the others so the D70 needs a slower shutter speed to let in adequate light

Oh I realise that, but it'd be the same with any of the lenses from Nikon, Sigma, Tamron, etc. 300mm @ f5.6 is going to be slowish.

try putting it on a tripod, and setting the self timer, and I'm sure that you will be happy enough with the resulting image.

Heh, bit difficult when you're walking through the woods and see some animal frozen on a branch that you just know will run off if you move too much :-)

For anyone with a heavy lense, do you find it easier to do handheld work (i.e. is it easier to hold steady) or worse?

[fraggle]

Originally Posted by wsurfa

sigma 70-200 2.8 HSM is the best value high performance zoom lens. Possibly not quite as sharp as the NIkkor 70-200 2.8VR at 2.8 but still very good and c 400-550GBP dependant on source

Could you point me to where you've seen this lense for £400 please?

Ta

[Radiohead]

Originally Posted by fraggle

For anyone with a heavy lense, do you find it easier to do handheld work (i.e. is it easier to hold steady) or worse?

My Sigma 70-300 feels a fair bit heavier than the 70-300 G I had briefly and makes the D70 feel more balanced to me.

[dejongj]

I immediately returned the 70-300G, first of all the site in that link send me a silver model which looked horrible and they said they couldn't supply a black one...But provided a no quibble refund, so not too back an experience...

However that lense feels seriously cheap to me. I do realise that it is a very subjective statement and it is important that the glass is ok...I now went for the Sigma 70-300APO which is a world apart (as in better feel to it...)...Much more pleasant to handle, definitely agree with Radiohead...

[wsurfa]

Fraggel - sub £400 on ebay quite often but you have the VAT/import gamble in manyt cases

[fraggle]

Originally Posted by wsurfa

Fraggel - sub £400 on ebay quite often but you have the VAT/import gamble in manyt cases

Ah right, I thought you meant you'd seen it for sale in the UK for £400 or so with the VAT added :-)

Currently looking at Nikon 80-200, 70-200 VR and Sigma 80-400 OS (same as VR). I keep being outbit by a tenner or so just as auctions end!

[Radiohead]

Nice choices Fraggle - are they new lenses?

[SeaneyC]

Don't know what the nikon lenses are like, but the sigma 80-400 OS AF motor is sloooooooooow - No HSM motor. What were sigma thinking! If you can stretch, the Sigma 100-300 F4 HSM is a very well regarded lens, and is £550 at the moment from 7dayshop. No VR obviously, but you do get that extra stop. If you need the reach, you can always get a 1.4x Teleconverter, which will give you up to 420mm@F5.6. Supposed to be a very sharp combo too

[wsurfa]

I've got 50-500 aka Bigma as a one choice sport lens and whilst not as quick and an afs prime it seems to work well enough for rugby stuff - all taken wide open up to iso 1600. Would love a 70-200 HSM but also a 180 macro so choices choices.

Link to some shots from 50-500 below

http://www.pbase.com/wsurfa/grfc&page=all

[SeaneyC]

I also have the Bigma, but I would love the flexibility of an extra stop or 2 sometimes. Am currently in the process of selling everything i own and don't use at the moment, and am going to upgrade all my camera gear!

Bikes in wet @ knockhill, had to really push some of them in post processing, MISERABLE day!

http://www.seaneyc.co.uk/knockhill

[fraggle]

Originally Posted by Radiohead

Nice choices Fraggle - are they new lenses?

The one's I'm looking at on EBay are both used and new.

Its funny watching the prices. The old single touch 80-200 nikon and the twin touch AF-D prices crept up, then a few 70-200 VR nikons came on second hand and killed the AF-D prices from something like £750~£800 down to £550

Originally Posted by SeanyC

Don't know what the nikon lenses are like, but the sigma 80-400 OS AF motor is sloooooooooow - No HSM motor. What were sigma thinking! If you can stretch, the Sigma 100-300 F4 HSM is a very well regarded lens, and is £550 at the moment from 7dayshop. No VR obviously, but you do get that extra stop. If you need the reach, you can always get a 1.4x Teleconverter, which will give you up to 420mm@F5.6. Supposed to be a very sharp combo too

I've sort of decided that if I'm going to spend £500 on a lense, I might as well add another couple of hundred to that and get a VR / OS lense, as all the reviews I've read all have had positive things to say about the stabilisation. I also really think if I were to get a very heavy lense like the 70-200 VR it'd just sit in the case a lot cause of its weight and size. Not sure how the 80-400s compare size & weight wise with the 80-200 f2.8?

I've read that the AF on the Nikon 80-400 is not the AF-S version, and that thats slow as well, so not much difference between that and the Sigma in that respect.

Oddly enough I've also read that the nikon teleconverters work well, but the Sigma ones degrade the resolution of their lenses quite a bit? Nice to hear you've gotten good results with the combo.

Seany, nice bike pictures, basically what I'm wanting to do with whatever telezoom lense I get. Were those taken with the Sigma 80-200? If so I gather the AFs fast enough to track a bike around a circuit, did you use it on AF-C mode or AF-S?

[SeaneyC]

Originally Posted by fraggle

I also really think if I were to get a very heavy lense like the 70-200 VR it'd just sit in the case a lot cause of its weight and size. Not sure how the 80-400s compare size & weight wise with the 80-200 f2.8?

Boy are you in for a surprise! The nikon 70-200 VR weighs in at just under 1.5Kg i believe - The sigma 80-400 is 1.75kg!

Originally Posted by fraggle

I've read that the AF on the Nikon 80-400 is not the AF-S version, and that thats slow as well, so not much difference between that and the Sigma in that respect.

I've not used the Sigma 80-400, but if its anything to go by some of their other non-hsm lenses i've used, it's painfully slow!

Originally Posted by fraggle

Oddly enough I've also read that the nikon teleconverters work well, but the Sigma ones degrade the resolution of their lenses quite a bit? Nice to hear you've gotten good results with the combo.

I've not used the combo myself yet, I'm only going on what people have said, currently in the process of sidestepping from the 50-500 to the 100-300 plus the 1.4 telecon. The 1.4 on the 100-300 seems to be quite sharp, certainly NOT far away from using the 100-300 without the telecon. The Sigma 2x on the other hand, is comparatively junk, but if you need the reach you need the reach i guess. Personally i would never think about using it.

Originally Posted by fraggle

Seany, nice bike pictures, basically what I'm wanting to do with whatever telezoom lense I get. Were those taken with the Sigma 80-200? If so I gather the AFs fast enough to track a bike around a circuit, did you use it on AF-C mode or AF-S?

I wish they were taken with the Sigma 70-200! (i assume you mean the 70-200 f2.8 EX HSM? Dont recall a 80-200). Firstly it would mean that I would be close enough to the track to get photos like that, and secondly, it would mean that i own one! Unfortunately neither, they were all take with the magical 50-500 "bigma" between about 300 and 500mm. The AF on the Sigma lenses i'm led to believe in terms of speed is 100-300, 70-200, 50-500 with the 100-300 being the quickest. The bike pics are mainly manual focus, the focus on the Sigma body i own is accurate, but slow! Currently flogging everything i own on fleabay, hopefully i'll have a 1D and some shiny new lenses by the end of the week! Glad you like the pics, hopefully i'll be able to get some awesome ones next weekend at Thruxton with the Touring cars!

[Matt F]

Originally Posted by fraggle

And I see from one web page that the AF-D uses the focus motor in the camera body, so I'm doubting that AF will work on the D70 with these lenses?

AFD lenses work fine on the D70. I swear by my 50mm F1.4 which of course turns into the perfect (75mm) portrait lens on the D70. Quality is about as good as it gets - way better than the 18-70.

In fact, I'd say that once you've sorted out your telephoto zoom, the next lens you get should be the 50mm 1.8 Nikkor. Great for portraits as the focal length is spot on plus it's fast enought to really throw the background out of focus.

Matt.

[Radiohead]

Originally Posted by Matt F

AFD lenses work fine on the D70. I swear by my 50mm F1.4 which of course turns into the perfect (75mm) portrait lens on the D70. Quality is about as good as it gets - way better than the 18-70.

In fact, I'd say that once you've sorted out your telephoto zoom, the next lens you get should be the 50mm 1.8 Nikkor. Great for portraits as the focal length is spot on plus it's fast enought to really throw the background out of focus.

Matt.

Agreed - the Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 was the first lens I bought after I got the kit. For under £100 it's a serious bargain and is pin-sharp.

Here's a pic I took of my daughter with the 50mm last weekend.