Filters

chrism_scotland · 30-05-2009, 7:51 PM

Been looking at getting a CPL filter for my Sigma 10-20 as its my main landscape lens however been reading up a little on ND filters and especially the Cokin P system, for about £62 I could get the Cokin P ND Grad Kit which comes with a 77mm ring adaptor, would this be alright on my 10-20, or will I get optical problems with it?

springtide · 30-05-2009, 8:04 PM

You'll get vignetting with the 10-20 with the P series.

Basically you need 100mm filters for ultra wide angle lenses, so either the Cokin Z series, Lee or any other 100mm filters.

Note that grads are usually 100x150mm, rather than 100x100mm as they are moved up and down.

chrism_scotland · 31-05-2009, 9:55 AM

I've been suggested Hi-Tech Filters has anyone used these before?

chrism_scotland · 31-05-2009, 3:52 PM

Also what are all the separate parts of a filter system that I need?

mrpink123 · 31-05-2009, 6:39 PM

I'd heard that a wide angle holder (the one which only holds a single filter) for the P system was OK on the Sigma 10-20? Can someone confirm/deny this?

chrism_scotland · 01-06-2009, 6:51 PM

Looking at Lee filter holder and Hitech Filters or Cokin Z holder, has anyone got any suggestions on kits I could buy?

springtide · 01-06-2009, 7:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrpink123

I'd heard that a wide angle holder (the one which only holds a single filter) for the P system was OK on the Sigma 10-20? Can someone confirm/deny this?

Read post #2
Not sure about modded filter holders, but even the Lee's were close with my 11-18 @ 11mm. Stacking filters with the Lee's doesn't make much difference for vignetting (unto 3), it's the inner circle of the filter holder that causes the vignette first.

Chris,
Think people rate the Hitech filters highly. Think Bristol Pete bought some for his trip a few months ago and was pretty pleased.
I only know the Lee range. Basically need an adapter, filter holder and the filter itself. If you are going to get one, maybe start with the 0.9 (three stop) grad. Hard or soft, take your pick but would probably say soft.

chrism_scotland · 01-06-2009, 10:23 PM

Cheers Springtide,
Think I will get the Lee Holder Kit and a set of ND Grads from Hitech, if I'm looking for a CPL I take it I still need a screw in even if I have a filter system?

springtide · 01-06-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

Cheers Springtide,
Think I will get the Lee Holder Kit and a set of ND Grads from Hitech, if I'm looking for a CPL I take it I still need a screw in even if I have a filter system?

There are several options for CIL POLs. All expensive.

The best is a 105mm that fits on the front of the Lee filter with an adapter. Think the B+W CIL POLs work out with the adapter etc to around £180-200.
Check out Robert White for the options. You can use a 100mm x 100mm glass filter for around £100ish, but it means you can't turn it to adjust the level of POL unless you get the tandom filter holder (known as the 'upgrade kit')

And as for the adapters, make sure you get the 77mm wide angle adapter. If you use a 77mm CIL POL between the lens and the Lee adapter, you'll get vignetting as well as trouble removing the filter from the adapter.

chrism_scotland · 01-06-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springtide

There are several options for CIL POLs. All expensive.

The best is a 105mm that fits on the front of the Lee filter with an adapter. Think the B+W CIL POLs work out with the adapter etc to around £180-200.
Check out Robert White for the options. You can use a 100mm x 100mm glass filter for around £100ish, but it means you can't turn it to adjust the level of POL unless you get the tandom filter holder (known as the 'upgrade kit')

And as for the adapters, make sure you get the 77mm wide angle adapter. If you use a 77mm CIL POL between the lens and the Lee adapter, you'll get vignetting as well as trouble removing the filter from the adapter.

Thanks mate, will take a look at Robert White, very comprehensive Lee stock.
I'd rather spend a bit more now and get better equipment than buy something cheaper and then regret it, I reckon one of the Lee Polarisers is out of the question just now as I'm looking at close to £200 for a filter set and holder kit.

Jack the lad · 01-06-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrpink123

I'd heard that a wide angle holder (the one which only holds a single filter) for the P system was OK on the Sigma 10-20? Can someone confirm/deny this?

I have this system and it works fine all the way down to 10mm

If you are going to use the filters often I would suggest bot getting the Cokin filters. They give quite a bad colour cast in bright light.

chrism_scotland · 02-06-2009, 6:31 AM

Yeah I've noticed people talking about a colour cast on the Cokin ND filters, although some folk were saying its sorted now.

Does anyone use the Cokin Pro Z Holder?

tps58 · 02-06-2009, 6:53 AM

I use the Cokin P series wide angle adaptor on my Sigma and its fine. A ND4 grad works really well with high contract pics.

Tezza

chrism_scotland · 02-06-2009, 9:54 AM

I know that the Hitech ND Grads and ND filters are highly regarded, however does anyone use the Hitech Filter Holder?

springtide · 02-06-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the lad

I have this system and it works fine all the way down to 10mm

If you are going to use the filters often I would suggest bot getting the Cokin filters. They give quite a bad colour cast in bright light.

My apologies. I stand corrected!

In my defence had been told with someone that had the P series (and a Tam 11-18 I think) that they got vignetting from around 15mm (who asked me about the Lee Filters)

Colour cast does seem a problem with the Cokin, but I've mostly seen the severe (uncorrectable) purple cast with long exposures.

Chris,
Not sure about the Hitech Filter holder, never seen them TBH
They don't really do a lot so will probably work fine. I like the sound of the 105mm filter thead on the front.
Do for it and let us know what you think!

cedmondson · 02-06-2009, 11:33 AM

I had Cokin P filters & they vignetted from about 14mm on a Tokina 12-24 using the WA adaptor.
Before I sold them, I 'measured' the colour cast by photographing a whitish wall without a filter & setting the white balance in Lightroom from it. As expected I got some slight variations in brightness level around the frame but virtually no variation in colour as R,G & B values moved by the same degree.
Then I repeated the test with a single Cokin ND grad & set the white balance from the unfiltered end - this time I could see small but consistent variations with red values up to +1% relative to blue and green -1%. Not very much and under some circumstances no cast was noticeable but tweaking exposure settings (levels, curves etc) or saturation tended to amplify them.

chrism_scotland · 02-06-2009, 12:34 PM

Has anyone ever used srb griturn filters?

chrism_scotland · 02-06-2009, 10:27 PM

Ok last question before I order, think I've decided on a Lee Holder and Hitech filters but a couple of wee queries.
Firstly just to confirm that for a Sigma 10-20 I'm going to need 100mm filters not 85mm?
Also am I better off with Hard or Soft Grads?

Also for the lee adaptor ring I know I need 77mm for the 10-20 but do I want normal or wide angle?
Chris

springtide · 02-06-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

Ok last question before I order, think I've decided on a Lee Holder and Hitech filters but a couple of wee queries.
Firstly just to confirm that for a Sigma 10-20 I'm going to need 100mm filters not 85mm?
Also am I better off with Hard or Soft Grads?

Chris

Have never owned a 10-20 so can't comment on that lens, but personally I'd go for 100mm's.

Soft vs Hard. I have a single hard, but a set of softs. The hard is easier to use as you can see the transition, but I probably use the softs more. As always, it depends on what you shoot. Lee do a filter book which is £10, but worth it to understand the 'when and where' etc.

The 'when and where's' are not rocket science, ND's cut light - so filtering the frame will do 'exactly what is says on the tin'.

Sky is usually brighter than foreground, to if the FG is level than maybe hards are better. If there are cliffs etc, then softs would probably be better.

cedmondson · 03-06-2009, 7:51 AM

Go for 100mm filters / holder & a WA adaptor

I use hard & soft more or less equally (I have 0.6 & 0.9 of each) - it mainly depends on subject matter though. You might find it worthwhile getting hold of the current issue (June - I think) of Outdoor Photography - it has a fairly lengthy feature on choosing & using ND Grads.

chrism_scotland · 03-06-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedmondson

Go for 100mm filters / holder & a WA adaptor

I use hard & soft more or less equally (I have 0.6 & 0.9 of each) - it mainly depends on subject matter though. You might find it worthwhile getting hold of the current issue (June - I think) of Outdoor Photography - it has a fairly lengthy feature on choosing & using ND Grads.

Thanks mate, I will see if I can get a copy and take a look where would I get a copy of Outdoor Photography?

I might buy the soft grads first and the I can get the hard kit if I feel the need, think I will get a couple of ND filters too as I'd like to try getting some shots of the sea and waterfalls and try using a slower shutter speed.

cedmondson · 03-06-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

Thanks mate, I will see if I can get a copy and take a look where would I get a copy of Outdoor Photography?

I flicked through a copy yesterday in WH Smith (Winchester actually, though I dare say you'll find a nearer branch

)

chrism_scotland · 03-06-2009, 11:19 AM

Cheers mate, I will take a look when I'm in town at the weekend, is it a UK or US magazine?

cedmondson · 03-06-2009, 11:51 AM

UK - more info here

chrism_scotland · 03-06-2009, 12:24 PM

Cheers mate, can order it from there.
What Lee Filter Kit would be the best?
Am I best to get one that has filters with it as well as the holder and pouch?

cedmondson · 03-06-2009, 1:14 PM

Obviously a subjective decision but I dismissed the basic kit with the coral filter as I'd rather do that kind of thing in Photoshop & went for the DSLR kit with a proglass ND as well as a 0.6 hard grad.
The pouch is worth having IMHO. I got hold of a couple of the Lee microfibre wraps that hold 3 filters each and have one in each of two pockets in the pouch. The third pocket holds the holder with P ring and CPL attached (B+W 105mm Kasemann). Anyway, the point is it holds more than you might expect and provides sufficient protection for it.
I haven't shopped around lately so don't know who has the best prices for this stuff currently. However, take a look at Teamwork Photo, Studio Kit Direct and Speedgraphic as they were who I bought from a year ago.

chrism_scotland · 03-06-2009, 5:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedmondson

Obviously a subjective decision but I dismissed the basic kit with the coral filter as I'd rather do that kind of thing in Photoshop & went for the DSLR kit with a proglass ND as well as a 0.6 hard grad.
The pouch is worth having IMHO. I got hold of a couple of the Lee microfibre wraps that hold 3 filters each and have one in each of two pockets in the pouch. The third pocket holds the holder with P ring and CPL attached (B+W 105mm Kasemann). Anyway, the point is it holds more than you might expect and provides sufficient protection for it.
I haven't shopped around lately so don't know who has the best prices for this stuff currently. However, take a look at Teamwork Photo, Studio Kit Direct and Speedgraphic as they were who I bought from a year ago.

I was thinking about the DSLR Kit but its a bit steep at £170.00, although I did like the look of the proglass ND I bet its a cracking bit of kit.

In saying that by the time I were to buy a Holder Kit, Front Ring and Pouch Separately I'm looking at a similar amount.

Whats the difference between the foundation kit, professional kit and dslr kit in terms of the holder?

springtide · 03-06-2009, 6:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

I was thinking about the DSLR Kit but its a bit steep at £170.00, although I did like the look of the proglass ND I bet its a cracking bit of kit.

In saying that by the time I were to buy a Holder Kit, Front Ring and Pouch Separately I'm looking at a similar amount.

Whats the difference between the foundation kit, professional kit and dslr kit in terms of the holder?

If I remember, the 'foundation kit' and 'dslr kit' have the single adapter, but the 'professional kit' has the tandom adapter (i.e. the upgrade kit!). The tandom adapter is just another filter holder, but with an attachment to slot into the last filter slot to join the two.

Confused?

I had a look at the Hitech adapters, and they look pretty good to me. Probably not as flexible as the Lee (i.e. you can add slots with the Lee), but the design looks pretty good. Also like the intergrated 105mm filter thread - as this is extra with the Lee, and takes up one slot.

BTW, the tandom adapter is for use with their 100x100mm CIL POL (so that you can rotate it - or any other filter you want to rotate)... this is what I have, but if I'm honest I wish I hadn't gone that route... with the tandom adapter... I get bad vignetting with my ultra wide.

chrism_scotland · 03-06-2009, 7:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springtide

If I remember, the 'foundation kit' and 'dslr kit' have the single adapter, but the 'professional kit' has the tandom adapter (i.e. the upgrade kit!). The tandom adapter is just another filter holder, but with an attachment to slot into the last filter slot to join the two.

Confused?

I had a look at the Hitech adapters, and they look pretty good to me. Probably not as flexible as the Lee (i.e. you can add slots with the Lee), but the design looks pretty good. Also like the intergrated 105mm filter thread - as this is extra with the Lee, and takes up one slot.

BTW, the tandom adapter is for use with their 100x100mm CIL POL (so that you can rotate it - or any other filter you want to rotate)... this is what I have, but if I'm honest I wish I hadn't gone that route... with the tandom adapter... I get bad vignetting with my ultra wide.

Thanks Springtide its because of my 10-20 and my worrying about vignetting that I'm finding what to choose so tough.

I spoke to Formatt who said that even the Wide Angle Holder would probably vignette on my 10-20 but then I see people talking about full frame and cropped sensors and how it affects vignetting and I don't know how

I like the idea of rotation but it is quite expensive to buy the "full" Lee Kit when the basic kit is only £52.00.

springtide · 03-06-2009, 7:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrism_scotland

I spoke to Formatt who said that even the Wide Angle Holder would probably vignette on my 10-20 but then I see people talking about full frame and cropped sensors and how it affects vignetting and I don't know how

Whether you get vignetting or is partly related to the focal length and also related to the lens design. It's not a case of, you are fine at 10mm as long as you use 100mm filters and the lens has a 77mm filter.

I have two lenses, my KM 17-35 & CZ 24-70, both have 77mm filter thread.
While I was holiday, I popped my CIL POL onto the 24-70 for the first time and found that it vignetted. I have no issues with my 17-35 with the same screw filter. That reminds me, need a new 77mm CIL POL!

The other thing to note is, it's not a huge issue if you can't use the 10-20 until 12mm due to the filters. You loose a bit yes, but when picking the 10-20 did you also consider the 11-18? Or was the 11-18 not on your list because it's only 11mm (and not 10mm)

The point is, there is no need to worry. You buy what is the best option you can afford, and you work with what you have. Mind you, I think format do 125mm filters!