Would you sell to this person?

[Peakoverload]

Only the other day I said in a thread on here how much I hate selling anything on Ebay because you always get a dodgy character coming along and making an offer.

Guess what, I was right!

So I'm selling my studio lights on Ebay and the ad has been up a few hours on which it clearly states that I will only post to certain European Countries and that if you are not in mainland Britain you should contact me first. I then get an e-mail from someone who has 43 feedback score which is 100% positive. Looking at his feedback it's for a wide range of items he's bought including a few photographic items so in many ways he seems legit.

He then asks me, would I post to abroad

Hmm, , Outside Western Europe, Home To Many A Scammer?

I decide it's not worth the risk and say no. He comes back to me and says, would I be prepared to post it to a UK address? He gives me the address and according to Royal Mail and Multimap it checks out in that it exists at least.

Still a scam?

There's still no way that I would sell this item to him unless I have his money actually sitting in my bank account, not just a PayPal account but even then I'm unsure if the money could still be claimed back by the bank if this is a scam?

Ideas, thoughts, suggestions?

[stevegreen]

If you are nervous about it then either don't do it or make sure you have the money in your account before dispatching. I didn't know that [country] was home to many a scammer, I thought that was[other country] .......though these days it really makes no difference.

[Liquid101]

If the money has cleared in your Paypal account, I would feel pretty safe in sending the item - to, or anywhere for that matter. To be sure you could withdraw the money to your bank account - slow, but safer.

You could also ask for a direct bank transfer - depends if you're happy supplying him with your account number and sort code.

[fuzed]

do NOT take paypal credit card payments, and ENSURE that anything that is sent is sent so that you have proof of delivery and its insured to the value of the item.

[dfrear]

If your not happy with it I would just politely decline, maybe even give a short explanation as to why. There's no point in risking it

[Liquid101]

Originally Posted by fuzed

do NOT take paypal credit card payments

Why not? they take longer to clear - but if they clear then surely you're safe?

[jonnypb]

i'd be very careful. there are more and more scammers all the time and lots aren't using addresses anymore because people know it's a scam then

[dazza74]

Admittedly it does sound a bit dodgy but on the other hand a number of people from that country work in this country and it could be the person wanting to buy the item has a relative working here who could post the item onto him. I'd personally wait for the money to clear into my paypal account then move the money straight out into your own bank account before sending the goods

[Liquid101]

Why does everybody worry so much about scammers? OK, there are plenty of them about, but they only pray on the stupid.

If the money clears and you send the item using a recorded and insured delievery method (which is a non-brainer with any ebay transaction) I can't see how anything can go wrong. If you make it clear that the item will be sent only when you have cleared funds, it'll soon put off the scammer element.

To suggest that everybody who lives outside Western Europe is a scammer is pretty insulting IMHO.

[Peakoverload]

I had thought about saying to the buyer that I would only send the item once the funds had cleared into my bank account but in looking into this further I've found out that in cases of fraud PayPal can and do deduct what are effectively stolen funds from your bank account even after it has cleared!

In other words what could be happening is that the buyer has a legit or even a hacked Ebay account but has a hacked PayPal account. He pays for the goods but the money gets deducted from the actual PayPal account holders bank account. PayPal assume it's a legitimate transfer because it came from what they believe to be a legitimate customer. I receive the money and withdraw it to my account and post the item.

The real PayPal account holder then realises that they no longer have any money in their account and contact PayPal to say they've been hacked. PayPal then reclaim the stolen money to pay back to the real account holder and I'm left with no money and no lights.

Hmm.

See, I now want to and almost certainly will say no to this person but it's now making me doubt accepting payments from anyone based on that scenario!

[h4rri]

If you wait for the money to clear into your account then it should be safe. The other thing to do is only post to 'approved' addresses etc. It's a whole world of scammers out there with a few genuine buyers in there too.

Anyway, whats the eBay item number

[dfrear]

The problem with accepting credit card payments via PayPal is that if a stolen credit card is used, or a phished PayPal account (much more likely) the owner of the card can claim the money back from your PayPal account. The person who's account was used get's their money back, but your left with nothing.

EDIT: Looks as though peak hit the nail on the head just before I hit post

[Astaroth]

With the exception of UK drawn cheques to personal bank accounts even cleared funds can be reversed... if they pay by a stolen/ cloned credit card it could be a few weeks before the true card holder receives their statement, notifies their card issuer of the issue and completes the declaration and so the chargeback initiated against you.

If in doubt then decline to sell, I agree with the sentiment that saying everyone from certain countries are scammers is just wrong but at the same time I am also more nervous dealing with certain countries than others.

[dazza74]

Originally Posted by dfrear

The problem with accepting credit card payments via PayPal is that if a stolen credit card is used, or a phished PayPal account (much more likely) the owner of the card can claim the money back from your PayPal account. The person who's account was used get's their money back, but your left with nothing.

I think it's a lot harder for paypal to do that once you've moved the money out of paypal into a normal bank account. A friend of mine did this to protect himself when he received payment for goods he sold on ebay.

[Astaroth]

Originally Posted by dazza74

I think it's a lot harder for paypal to do that once you've moved the money out of paypal into a normal bank account.

Failing to return the money would be theft, at the end of the day it comes down to PayPals policy and their commercial decision on if it is worth pursuing you for the stolen money or to write it off and simply ban you from using PayPal