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Old 01-03-2008, 2:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Cool Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

Hi i am looking for a top of the range compact,with SLR capabilities/quality capture.I am looking because i am totally fed up lugging my slr gear about.?I feel the results i have had with my nikon d40x 18-200 vr lens could be all but achieved with a good compact any suggestions views etc thanks jim.
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Old 01-03-2008, 3:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

No compact is going to give you the same IQ because of the small sensor size on compact cameras.

Noise once you use anything other than ISO100 is generally a problem even on the best of compacts.

The only compact to use a APS-C sized sensor is the new Sigma DP1
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0802/08...maDP1price.asp

But it comes at a hefty price, and only has a fixed focal length.

What is one of the best compacts, the Canon G9, still has noise even at ISO80
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong9/page20.asp

Quote:
Some shadow noise visible even at ISO 80, Noise Reduction effects start to creep in and smear detail from about ISO 125
ISO 800 and 1600 so noisy (and soft) it's almost pointless, ISO 3200 very low resolution
Noisewise, some of the Fuji superCCD compact cameras were the best, but even they have circumed to the need to increase pixels, and consequently noise has increased too.
e.g. the F31fd from last year
Quote:
Class-leading high ISO performance; superb results up to ISO 400
Surprisingly good ISO 800 performance
However, the latest incarnation the F50fd, still isn't bad from a noise perspective
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fuji...0fd/page17.asp

Last edited by loz; 01-03-2008 at 3:32 PM.
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Old 01-03-2008, 5:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

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Originally Posted by woody57 View Post
Hi i am looking for a top of the range compact,with SLR capabilities/quality capture.I am looking because i am totally fed up lugging my slr gear about.?I feel the results i have had with my nikon d40x 18-200 vr lens could be all but achieved with a good compact any suggestions views etc thanks jim.
As Loz says - no compact will give you anything close to SLR results. Bridge cameras will probably give the best of the results -but even though they're smaller than an SLR, they're still not pocketable - so you're still going to have to carry a bag or case of some kind. The way I see it, if you're going to carry a bag, you may as well have somethign useful in it.

What kind of photographs do you make?
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Old 01-03-2008, 5:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

Ahoy!

The only one I know of that comes remotely close is the Sony DSC-R1. Be prepered to pay a premium price for it though (eBay). No longer made, it's regarded as the BEST of the prosumer/bridge variety.

EDIT: It's not a compact, but no compact can compare to a dSLR. Many on the forum have the Panasonic DMC-TZ3.
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Old 01-03-2008, 6:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

Its not out yet (and it aint cheap) but the sigma dp-1 looks to be a stunning compact with a sensor of similar size to a DSLR (check out the preview on dpreview)
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Old 01-03-2008, 6:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

just noticed the DP-1 has already been mentioned.

The other option is to shoot film!

Pick up a cheap medium format folder + scanner - should give better results than a DSLR

or a compact 35mm rangefinder like the Canonet Gl17 GIII (40m f1.7 lens IIRC!) should be able to pick up a decent one for under £50
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Old 01-03-2008, 6:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

The first images from the production DP1 look encouraging. If it continues to show promise, it will be my next camera purchase.

First look at a production DP1 (PopPhoto)
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Old 01-03-2008, 7:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

I have gone the other way. I have a Canon Digital IXUS 850 IS and have now gone for a heavy-weight D300 with 18-200VR lens.

If you check out the reviews in dpreview.com, steves-digicams.com, dcresource.com you will find with compacts get the best reviews. At Ken Rockwells Recommended Cameras you will get his take on things. Ken likes the Canon IXUS cameras with Image Stabilisation like I have.

Image stabilisation is more useful than more megapixels on the Canon cameras. Taking picture outdoors in good light produces excellent results. Where the compacts fall down is indoor pictures with flash. I am amazed at the results you can get with bounced flash using my D300 with a Nikon SB400 flash which I got for £75 on Amazon. I am now getting a SB800 for off camera flash because I am so impressed.
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Old 01-03-2008, 8:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

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Originally Posted by danburbridge View Post
The other option is to shoot film!

Pick up a cheap medium format folder + scanner - should give better results than a DSLR
Firstly, if a DSLR is too much to carry around, then a MF camera is like carrying around the kitchen sink full of dirty dishes.

Secondly - even a perfectly exposed 6x7 transparency from my RB67, scanned on a flextight scanner struggles to keep up with even a mid range DSLR. It's amazing how far modern cameras have come.

35mm film is dead in the water compared to even the basic DSLR's - OK a great organic feel to your shots, but in terms of colour rendition, sharpness, resolution and dpeth - the digital wins hands down.
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Old 01-03-2008, 8:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

I would disagree re medium format - a folder is small enuough to fit in your pocket and film emulsions have come on a long way in the last couple of years (spearheaded from advances in motion picture film)

Colour rendition is one area where film (transparancy) wins hands down though
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Old 01-03-2008, 8:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

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Colour rendition is one area where film (transparancy) wins hands down though
Not a chance.

I've been working in colour critical work for the last 10 years - and direct digital capture is by far and away the most acurate way of capturing colour consistently. Transparency films can vary from batch to batch, film processing changes every time you put a film though (allbeit, fractionally) and when it comes to film scanning - well, unless you have gone to a lot of trouble when making the exposure in the first place, colour control is purely subjective.
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Last edited by Liquid101; 01-03-2008 at 10:28 PM. Reason: very to vary
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:55 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

Also check out the Ricoh GRDII

Especially for that 35mm feel with B&W - a few taken with mine in London...







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Old 02-03-2008, 1:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

Show me a compact that can...

- accurately AF track a bird in flight and isolate it from a busy background, or a sprinter/footballer, or a speeding car
- shoot 5+ frames per second,
- grab focus in a fraction of a second, even in dim light
- capture the image the instant you release the shutter,
- shoot (relatively) cleanly at 1600 ISO and higher,
- save files in raw format,
- gives a focal length range of 16mm - 896mm (35mm equivalent), which I have at my disposal at the moment (that's 56X optical zoom),
- gives you shallow DOF control to create nice bokeh for portraits, or isolate a single player in a rugby scrum,
- flash that can be bounced, fine tuned and reaches to 20m and beyond,
- shoot 1200+ frames without recharging or replacing batteries,
- capture 8-9 stops of dynamic range,
- sync flash at 1/250 or even faster, for daylight fill flash
- shoot wider than 28mm (35mm equivalent)
- shoot at 80mm f/1.8 or 27mm-320mm f/2.8 or 160mm-640mm f/4.5-f/5.6 or 896mm f/8 (35mm equivalent)
- give 3 stops of optical image stabilisation
- shoot with flash and avoid red eye at all distances
- be adjusted quickly for ISO, aperture, shutter speed, exposure compensation, flash exposure compensation
- separate the focusing operation from exposure metering and shutter release
- allow manual fine tuning of focus, for macro or product photography, or to shoot through, and beyond, wire fencing or branches and leaves
- be operated remotely - remote shooting with a laptop - for whatever reason
- display an RGB histogram for critical exposure analysis and correction
- stop down to f/22 or f/32 to allow a long exposure to smooth the flow of a stream or waterfall
- stop down to f/22 or f/32 to allow a long exposure to smooth the flow of a stream or waterfall and not suffer from massive diffraction softening
- constant aperture over the entire zoom range, making manual exposure straightforward while needing to zoom

I'm not aware of any compact that can deliver on more than 2-3 of those requirements, ever mind all of them, but my Canon 40D, 580EX flash and five lenses can. A G9 will do raw and, with a 580EX mounted, could also handle the flash requirements, but then it would no longer be compact.

Could you shoot a church wedding (successfully) with a compact? Could you shoot motorsport, or most action sports, well with a compact, reliably and under a wide range of lighting and weather conditions? Could you create a DOF so thin that only the eyes were in focus, for a full headshot? Could you capture a sequence of shots of your dog running towards you at full tilt?

I have a Sony DSC-P200 digicam. In good light, with a static subject/scene it works quite well. It's OK for snapshots and simple captures. For anything else it is complete and utter rubbish. Pictures are revolting at anything above 200 ISO. Even at 200 ISO the pictures are far from noise free. I hate it. Even so, there is nothing on the market today that I would want to spend my money on to replace it because in my opinion there is nothing good enough to make it worth spending the money. I'll stick with the SLR, content myself with snapshots, or simply not bother. The Fuji F31 was the best option (even without raw) but Fuji (and everyone else) sold out to marketing with these stupid stupid stupid high megapixel counts. I suppose the Canon G9 is closest to being the best compact available today but it is not especially compact and still can't do AI servo tracking of moving subjects. High ISO sucks as well. Now a G9 with the Fuji F31 sensor would begin to be getting somewhere, but even then, for action shots.......

Compacts might be OK for average photos in average conditions. In the right hands they can deliver amazing photographs. They certainly have their place, for convenience and price, but as soon as you push the envelope, in my opinion, compacts will run out of steam pretty quickly.
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Last edited by tdodd; 02-03-2008 at 5:27 PM.
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Old 02-03-2008, 1:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

Show me a DSLR and lens that fits on your jacket pocket.
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Old 02-03-2008, 1:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Best Compact With Slr Capabilities.

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Show me a DSLR and lens that fits on your jacket pocket.
I know you're only teasing, but in seriousness, the OP was under the impression that he can replace his SLR with a compact and expect to get (almost) equivalent image quality. Perhaps for his needs that could be true, if his needs are modest. Given the amount of kit I sometimes cart about (2 bodies, 5 lenses, macro tubes, a teleconverter, flash gun and spare batteries) I would not regard one body and a single lens as something that had to be "lugged about".

I just know that there is no way on earth that any compact camera, or even a dozen different ones, could give me every capability I have, and make use of, with my SLR setup.

Why do pros use SLRs? Why do hobbyists use SLRs? Is it because they like spending all that extra money and lugging all that extra kit? I doubt it. It is probably for flexibility, capability, ergonomics and ultimate image quality. No compact can match what an SLR can offer, but not everyone needs all that an SLR can offer. For some people a compact will do just fine.

So to go back to the OP's original question - Best Compact With Slr Capabilities? - it would be helpful to know which SLR capabilities he is actually looking to retain.
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Last edited by tdodd; 02-03-2008 at 5:07 PM.
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