Kit lenses or Body only?

[theo cupier]

OK, so I'm gradually circling the drain on my first DSLR purchase. As of this week, I've narrowed it down to the D80 or 40D (unless the A700 or E510 come around again... ). However, this is sort of a camera-agnostic question:

There seems to be a big choice to be made, right from the get-go with a DSLR purchase: Does one purchase a camera + lens package, or just a body and then shop around for your own choice of first lens?

There seems to be anywhere from £100 to £250+ difference between the body-only and body+lens package variants (for example, 40D = £699, 40D + EF-S 17-85 IS = £938; D80 = £489, D80 + AF-S DX 18-135mm = £649).

Let's assume that I'm comfortable with the idea of importing a lens, maybe even buying 2nd hand. Let's also assume that I don't have some esoteric usage planned (like an avowed intention only to take macros or wide angle stuff) that would tip the balance.

For those of you who bought a camera with a kit lens would you do it again if you were buying a first DSLR again, knowing what you do now? Do you still have a place for your kit lens in your "established" lens setup? Or do you view it as money wasted now?

Views on general principles are welcome, as well as specific comments about particular body/lens packages (for example no-one seems to like the 400D's kit lens; is the Nikon's 18-135 unmissable, etc?)

Merry Christmas and happy photographing to all, by the way!

[pixelpixel]

I worked out a while ago that the kit lens is £10 extra on a 400D. Just get it with the kit lens then you will have something to compare others with.

[dazza74]

Still my most used lens my kit lens 18-70mm DX on my D80. Optically I'd say it's the best lens I own although the 70-300mm VR does runs it a close second. I would only advise buying the body only for the D80 if you plan on spending the extra and going for the 18-200mm VR lens, otherwise it's a steal IMO the kit lenses offered for the D80.

[Brammers]

Loads of ways to see this...

If it's your first DSLR then you're probably not that experienced a photographer - you therefore don't know what lens you will end up favouring. It can therefore be argued that you should go with the cheap stuff and only commit your cash when you're sure you're buying exactly what you're after. Examples, some people never want to change lens, some people want speed, some people want IS, some people want close focusing, some people want light lenses, some people want build quality, some people want a filter size that matches their other kit... Until you can answer those questions, how can you know which is the lens for you? Some people also never outgrow their kit lens!

With something like a 400D or an A700 the kit lenses can be quite expensive - a 17-85 IS or a Carl Zeiss 16-80 aren't throwaway pieces of glass, what if you really wanted a super zoom or constant 2.8?

Then there's the argument that the camera is limited by what's mounted on it (front and back :P) and you should do the best you can. That 18-50 2.8 Vs 18-70 2.8-4.5 Vs 18-125 3.5-5.6 18-250 3.5-6.3 really isn't that hard a decision, even with little photographic experience, and that being able to get that decision fairly close will save you from having to buy a kit lens you'll end up using as a spare body cap (always lose those things...) So why not take a best guess, possibly play with other peoples' stuff for a while, and get it right first time?

Or why not be totally odd-ball and not have a standard zoom at all? :P

For what it's worth, I started with a Sigma 18-125. I really liked this lens, I bought it for £200 and sold it on for £135 in mint condition. It was small, light, had fast AF and an excellent range without noticable lack of quality. It was stabilised, which rocked for dragging the shutter. But in the end it just wasn't me, f3.5 was too slow at the wide end and f5.6 was waaaaaaaaay too slow at the long end.

Nowdays I don't even look at glass slower than f2, and that means all primes. f1.8 is a happy average I think, although that does get a bit heavy out at 135mm...

Of course, if you were on your 2nd camera, or if you've come with a strong background with film or something else, you probably already know roughly what you're after. In that case, go buy it :D

[The Mekon]

Mmm difficult one really. I bought the D80 with 18-135 kit around two months ago and and it seemed to be a reasonable combo. The lens is however not without it's faults, depending on what you'll use it for. Like most Nikon lenses it is pretty sharp but does suffer from being slow, you'll be using wide open for the most part.

A better bet would be the 18-200VR if your budget can stretch to it. If not the 18-70 kit is a better package (in my opinoin).

Saying all this I just gave this to my son and bought a D200 body and a couple of lenses......

Good luck and Merry Christmas.

[Pirate!!]

I bought the kit A100. Kit lens acceptable, but I wanted coverage to medium telephoto (300mm). You can see in my sig what I have now. Only one prime (Minolta AF 50mm f/1.7), which for low light, landscape and portrait is quite versatile. Tack sharp too!

Regarding the kit lens, for £10.00, it's a start, but if you have some idea of your likely NEEDS, then you can clearly start looking at specifics. If all you want is a general zoomer, a 28-300mm might do the job for the interim unless you want to go down the prime route.

Personally, I limited myself to a low-ish budget and managed to find (after reading lots of reviews) a selection to suit my NEEDS. I would love a dedicated macro and some more primes, but I only have 2 kidneys, so will keep those for now.

Now if I could find someone doing a garage sale with a selection of Minolta APO-G lenses for a few quid . . .

Happy holidays everyone.

[springtide]

I think Brammers summed it up nicely.

Just decide how much you want to spend, and see what you can get for that money.

As a first camera, IMO the D80 is a bargain nowadays.

[dazza74]

I just like how easy my D80 is to use, seems very intuitive to me especially if you just starting out in the world of D-SLR's like I was back in January.

[theo cupier]

Originally Posted by The Mekon

Saying all this I just gave this to my son and bought a D200 body and a couple of lenses......

Hi dad!!!

Originally Posted by Brammers

Loads of ways to see this...

If it's your first DSLR then you're probably not that experienced a photographer - you therefore don't know what lens you will end up favouring. ...

Of course, if you were on your 2nd camera, or if you've come with a strong background with film or something else, you probably already know roughly what you're after. In that case, go buy it :D

Well I'm coming from 35mm SLR (Canon AE-1), but I've been playing with a Fuji Finepix 2600 for a while...

I have an idea of what my long term lens set would be, although this will almost certainly change as I get used to whatever DSLR I buy, and an 18-70 (or something near that) features in there.

I've struggled around with a 70-210mm f5.6-6.5 long enough to know I'd like something faster than this. Equally, I realise that day-to-day, if I can't bring home good pictures of school plays in the horrid, gray, not-light of the assembly hall then I'll be in so much trouble, I'll never be allowed out to play at "proper photography"! So something fast around the 18-70mm range is also going to be needed, sooner rather than later.

What no-one is jumping in to say is that the £200 "saved" going body-only would buy me a couple of hidden gem lenses like the ...... or the ..... which will cover most of your needs.

But in seriousness, clearly it's partly a budget question (and WAF, of course). Somehow £700 on a body-only 40D and then shopping around for a great first lens feels like better use of money than taking what I'm handed with a body+lens package - do you know what I mean? But can this be backed up in reality? Are there lenses from Tokina / Sigma or whoever, that will be at least as good as a typical kit lens and save me a few quid towards the next lens (or Speedlight, or extra batteries or...)

[jomike]

Originally Posted by theo cupier

What no-one is jumping in to say is that the £200 "saved" going body-only would buy me a couple of hidden gem lenses like the ...... or the ..... which will cover most of your needs.

There is the Tamron 17-50 f2.8 for £192 at OneStop if you want faster glass.


Mike

[Brammers]

What no-one is jumping in to say is that the £200 "saved" going body-only would buy me a couple of hidden gem lenses like the ...... or the ..... which will cover most of your needs.

Very well! Usual suspects:

http://www.onestop-digital.com/catal...products_id=87
http://www.onestop-digital.com/catal...roducts_id=301

Or if you don't mind missing out on the wideangle (remember the conversion factor)

http://www.onestop-digital.com/catal...products_id=95

There's also a Tokina 16-50 2.8 which would be my choice (build quality + extra mm width).

They should do your school plays :D

[Holowlegs]

This may be a good thread to read as well

Here

[belfastblitz]

If you are sold on the D80, Tekmo have it with the 18-135 lens for £569.

Dixons online will price match this - with the added benefit of their KIt having £50 cashback from Nikon.

Total cost £519!!!

I did this last week and camera arrived on Thursday - so a very happy customer indeed!

It's my first DSLR and so far I am very happy with it - sure you could go for a lot more glass but with the 18-135 you get a nice wide shot and have a bit of zoom to play with. My advice would be to go for it and play around for a month or two before investing in any more kit so that you a) know how to use the thing properly and b) only but something you KNOW you need and wont live in your cupboard or bag!

[Tobers]

Originally Posted by theo cupier

What no-one is jumping in to say is that the £200 "saved" going body-only would buy me a couple of hidden gem lenses like the ...... or the ..... which will cover most of your needs.

Here's an idea...go for a 2nd hand body only 30D, and then put a real quality lens on it like a 17-55 or a 24-105, and you'll have a cracking kit.

As it happens I've got a lightly used 30D body for sale at the moment in the classifieds section .

Seriously though, this route would get you the best bang for buck I think.

[theo cupier]

Originally Posted by Brammers

Very well! Usual suspects:


They should do your school plays :D

Yeah, sorry, that sounded a little crass of me. I didn't mean to turn it into a "recommend me some lenses" thread, I know there are already oodles of those around. It was more an observation that no-one's immediate response was to recommend better alternative lenses, which made me wonder whether this meant the kit lenses were actually pretty good, if you wanted the particular lengths they offered.

Was trying to keep it as a more general discussion of the pros & cons of kit lenses versus shopping around. (Although thanks for the recommendations)

Also, tobers, interesting suggestion. I think you're probably a month or so early for me here - I'm in the middle stages of research before putting a funding request in to my financial director.