[Dak]

Hi
Looking to get a new Desktop for these purposes. Rather than asking about specific makes / set-ups etc I was after some more general advice.

Basically it seems that you can spend stupid amounts. I have been on the alienware and customised a £5k PC for example. Now if needed I could spend that but my question is a budgetary one:

Do I need spend that much? What is the improvement for example over a £2k PC? Is it diminishing returns?

General guidance is fine thanks.

[yazooo]

5k is pretty outrageous...

for 2k i got an excellent gaming rig, with a top 24" screen (HP), GTX295, 2 x 1 TB hard disk, and an i7 processor. that allows me to play the latest game, top res, all the effects maxed out etc. nice and responsive, 6g of ram, so can really multi task. even if i leave the memory hog firefox open in the background it is not an issue while playing games.

the added increase on price on that system probably came from RAID and SSD drives. SSD drives are those who like their computer to be turn on quick and be extra responsive, but the capacity is so little you can hardly put on any games there so you'll need extra storage anyway.

check this out bit-tech.net | Feature - What Hardware Should I Buy? - July 2009

i went with the top end system essentially, and did not regret a purchase.

[Razor]

5k, they are having a laugh charging that.

[sambd]

Please do not think you need to spend anywhere near £5,000 for a good pc

If you have a budget of £1000 or more you really should look into building your own pc or paying someone to build you one. One of my friends recently wanted a PC and he had £2000 to spend he was going to buy a DELL and I stopped him. I gave him a spec that I could build for £2000 which was far superior to the dell with even more warranty. He brought the parts had them shipped straight to me I built it within the day and he picked up the PC after buying me a few beers

[sambd]

Here is a quick spec for a PC I have come up with for near £2,000

Motherboard----Asus P6T Deluxe v2 Intel X58 (Socket 1366) £205.99

CPU-----Intel Core i7 920 D0 Stepping (SLBEJ) 2.66Ghz (can be overclocked to 4Ghz+)

CPU Cooler---Noctua NH-U12P SE1366 CPU Cooler (Socket LGA1366) £57.99

Ram---Corsair XMS3 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C7 (1600MHz) Tri-Channel

Graphics Card---Gainward GeForce GTX 295 1792MB GDDR3 (Single PCB) £354.99

Hard Drives X2---Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB SATA-II 32MB Cache - £61.99 (£123.98 for 2)

Power Supply---Corsair HX 850W ATX Modular SLI Compliant Power Supply £129.98

Blu ray Drive---LG CH08LS10 8x Blu-Ray Reader/16x DVD±RW - Black (Retail) £80.99

Case just for example---Antec 902 Nine Hundred Two Ultimate Gaming Case - Black £92.99

Screen---Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP 24" Widescreen LCD Monitor £419.99

Speakers---Logitech X-540 5.1 Surround Sound Speaker System £66.69

Keyboard --- Razer Arctosa Keyboard - Black £42.99

Mouse---Logitech G5 Gaming-Grade Laser Mouse £39.99

Total : £1,946.65

Gives you an extra £50 to play with

Also you could increase your budget to £5,000 and get the above PC with a decent 42" plasma, av receiver and a good set of speakers

[Robiow]

just a thought, what about this one?


Cube247 - Hydra ST20


better value?

[Dak]

Actualy the £5k was just the desktop. I have the monitor and peripherals....

[Sniper Ash6]

Originally Posted by Razor

5k, they are having a laugh charging that.

Paying for the name/badge arent you though?

I agree with the suggestions to custom build it or get someone you know (and trust with 2k of kit) to build the computer afteryou ordering the parts recommended

[Dak]

TBH I didnt know I was paying for a name with Alienware, I just googled a few gaming mags and got directed that way. The set up that I put together on there was as follows:
Overclocked Intel® Core™ i7-975 Extreme 3.86 GHz 8MB Cache
Alienware® High-Performance Liquid Cooling + Acoustic Dampening
Dual 1,792 MB NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 295
12GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz - 6 x 2048MB
Intel® X-58 Motherboard- Socket 1366 Core i7 Ready, Dual Triple Channel DDR3 Memory
512GB Solid State Drive (2 x 256GB)
1.0 TB SATA 3Gb/s 7200 RPM
6x Dual Layer Blu-ray Burner (BD-RE, DVD±RW, CD-RW)

I am not tied to a manufacturer, just need performance. I especially have problems with editing home videos (I know, get an Imac!) and want to be able to run games at full resolution etc. At the moment when the kids are on WoW and in a raid group the screen updates every 5 seconds or so.

Is there anything in the above list that is not necessary / over the top? Seems the SSD's may be OTT for £500?
I intend to get a Network Storage Device of a 2TB or so (mainly to run the Sonos and store /back up the music and pictures) so not sure how much of a HDD I actuallly need in the desktop.

Also, tbh the building one myself scares the pants off me, and I don't know anyone personally to go to for that. I could pay someone I guess but that would be a stranger.

Really appreciating your help here people, looks like you may have saved me a couple of £k!

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Sniper Ash6

Paying for the name/badge arent you though?

Spot on mate.


If the OP cant build his own then get CCL to build it for your for £70 including 1 years onsite warranty.

Custom Build Services from CCL - Awarded PC Pro Best Online Retailer of the Year 2008 for PC, PC Components, Laptops, Notebook, Computer Components, Intel Servers, Hard Drives, PC Memory

Or have a look at ocuk prebuilt machines, they are overclocked out of the box and allot cheaper than 5k.

"Ultima Eliminator" Intel Core i7 920 D0 Stepping (SLBEJ) 2.66Ghz @ 4.00GHz DDR3 System

[yazooo]

that is one outrageous machine. i really don't think you need any of that. the machine sambd spec'd is almost identical to mine as works great, and has capacity for expansion. the water cooling, dual gfx, and ssd's are just silly. there are no games out there that will use the full power of that gfx setup, unless you're planning on getting a silly high res screen, i'm talking something like twice the normal full hd res, otherwise those gfx cards are simply going to waste.

i would go with the CCL idea if you're not comfortable building it yourself. i would strongly consider doing it yourself anyway. it is nowhere near as hard as you think, nor as hard as it use be a decade or so ago. everything is quick fit, colour coded these days. as long as you take your time, read the instructions, it will be fine. the major added bonus is that when things go wrong, you know how to swap out the parts in a jiffy. and when you want to expand or upgrade it will be simple for you.

[sambd]

Originally Posted by Dak

TBH I didnt know I was paying for a name with Alienware, I just googled a few gaming mags and got directed that way. The set up that I put together on there was as follows:
Overclocked Intel® Core™ i7-975 Extreme 3.86 GHz 8MB Cache
Alienware® High-Performance Liquid Cooling + Acoustic Dampening
Dual 1,792 MB NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 295
12GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz - 6 x 2048MB
Intel® X-58 Motherboard- Socket 1366 Core i7 Ready, Dual Triple Channel DDR3 Memory
512GB Solid State Drive (2 x 256GB)
1.0 TB SATA 3Gb/s 7200 RPM
6x Dual Layer Blu-ray Burner (BD-RE, DVD±RW, CD-RW)

If you are going with a spec like the above make sure you get vista 64bit. If you end up getting 32bit you will not see like 8Gb of that ram

Do you really need dual NVIDIA 295? what resolution are you playing games on? I wouldn't bother with Solid State Drives atm stick with 2 1 TB hard drives

Also you do not need liquid cooling if you are only having the cpu clocked to 3.86 GHz. I have clocked some Intel i7 920 to over 4.2Ghz and that was using air cooling. Please do not buy the i7-975 Extreme it is in no way worth the cash Just to give you an idea on how much you would be saving:

The Intel Core i7 920 costs £205.99
The Intel Core i7 975 costs £801.99

That is a difference of nearly £600

Please don't give your hard earned cash to these evil companies. I know evil is a strong word but charging £5K for just the tower is just wrong

Hell I'll build you a killer PC if you want

[bigt-]

Do you really have to hit the £2000 mark? buy a pre-built system from scan or overclockers or similar and you will be able to do all those things easily, 4850 is what you need as it plays all the games, apart from crysis at max settings, dont forget graphics card prices are dropping very quickly.

[Simes]

Originally Posted by yazooo

that is one outrageous machine.

Completely agree. Would you buy a Lamborgini to go to the shops and back?

I'd also recommend the self-building route. It's not as hard as you may think and, as long as you take your time & follow the instructions, you'll manage no probs. You'll get what you want / need, not what someone else wants to feed you.

[Dak]

Originally Posted by Simes

Would you buy a Lamborgini to go to the shops and back?

TBH would love to, but the Lambo I could afford would come from the (toy)shop....

Anyone any views on PC specialist as a builder? I am with this so far:
Processor (CPU) Intel® Core™i7 Processor Extreme Edition i7-975 (3.33GHz) 6.4GTs/8MB Cache
Memory (RAM) 6GB DOMINATOR GT DDR3 1866MHz (7-8-7-20) - LIFETIME WARRANTY
Motherboard ASUS® RAMPAGE || EXTREME: DDR3, 3-Way SLI & CrossFireX on Demand
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium 64-bit + Windows 7 Upgrade Voucher (£86)
USB Options 8 x USB 2.0 PORTS (6 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk 300GB WD VelociRaptor® SATA 16MB CACHE (10,000rpm)
2nd Hard Disk 1.5TB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
RAID (HDD 1 & 2) NONE
1st CD/DVD Drive 8x BLU-RAY RE-WRITER DRIVE, 16x DVD ±R/±RW (£125)
2nd CD/DVD Drive NONE
Graphics Card 1792MB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX295 PCI EXPRESS
2nd Graphics Card 1792MB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX295 PCI EXPRESS
Sound Card ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Modem NONE, I WILL BE USING BROADBAND
Network Facilities ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
Floppy Disk Drive NONE
Memory Card Reader INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc)
Case ANTEC 1200 BLACK GAMING CASE
Power Supply & Case Cooling 1200W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£165)
Processor Cooling ASUS TRITON 81 PURE COPPER BASE ULTRA COOLER (£49)
Firewire & Video Editing 1 x IEEE 1394a FIREWIRE PORT ONBOARD
TV Card DUAL DIGITAL TV CARD (Watch/Record Freeview on PC)
Office Software Microsoft® Office® 2007 Home & Student (3 Licence) (£69)
Warranty 1 Year Return-to-Base incl 1st Month Free Collect & Return
Delivery DELIVERY BY 10 A.M WITHIN UK MAINLAND (MON - FRI) (£19)
Build Time Standard Build - Approximately 10 to 12 working days
Total order Price £2,789.00

Still up at £2800 but that includes some software. Couple of questions:
- I am planning to run a Buffalo NSD for music / pictures / back-up so what discs do I need in the PC? I picked the Velociraptor for speed, plus the second HDD for storage.
- I went for 2 graphics cards again, but you guys are starting to make question whether I need this. I have about 40 hours of wedding / safari / kids / sports video that I want to edit onto a Bluray disk with music and stills interspersed. Otherwise I run big word docs and reasonable sized excel docs for work and the kids run WoW and a few other MMORPG game. They want a good flight sim next. Do I need two cards?
- On the processor front, the Intel® Core™i7 Processor i7-950 (3.06GHz) 4.8GTs/8MB Cache brings the price down to £2490 and the Intel® Core™i7 Processor i7-920 (2.66GHz) 4.8GTs/8MB Cache to £2300. Now I don't mind paying for noticeable extra performance but dont need to go mad. Multitasking is probably the programmes in the last bullet, email, itunes and the usual security / antivirus. Actually just looked and I have 70 processes running at the mo but not got a clue what they all are.

So to summarise:
PC Specialist ?
What HDD config?
2 graphics cards?
Am I just being "beat the jones' " with wanting the top i7 processor?

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Simes

Completely agree. Would you buy a Lamborgini to go to the shops and back?

Yes in a heart beat.

But I wouldn't spend 5k on that pc.

[wolvers]

Originally Posted by Dak

TBH would love to, but the Lambo I could afford would come from the (toy)shop....

Anyone any views on PC specialist as a builder? I am with this so far:
Processor (CPU) Intel® Core™i7 Processor Extreme Edition i7-975 (3.33GHz) 6.4GTs/8MB Cache
Memory (RAM) 6GB DOMINATOR GT DDR3 1866MHz (7-8-7-20) - LIFETIME WARRANTY
Motherboard ASUS® RAMPAGE || EXTREME: DDR3, 3-Way SLI & CrossFireX on Demand
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium 64-bit + Windows 7 Upgrade Voucher (£86)
USB Options 8 x USB 2.0 PORTS (6 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk 300GB WD VelociRaptor® SATA 16MB CACHE (10,000rpm)
2nd Hard Disk 1.5TB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
RAID (HDD 1 & 2) NONE
1st CD/DVD Drive 8x BLU-RAY RE-WRITER DRIVE, 16x DVD ±R/±RW (£125)
2nd CD/DVD Drive NONE
Graphics Card 1792MB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX295 PCI EXPRESS
2nd Graphics Card 1792MB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX295 PCI EXPRESS
Sound Card ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Modem NONE, I WILL BE USING BROADBAND
Network Facilities ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
Floppy Disk Drive NONE
Memory Card Reader INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc)
Case ANTEC 1200 BLACK GAMING CASE
Power Supply & Case Cooling 1200W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£165)
Processor Cooling ASUS TRITON 81 PURE COPPER BASE ULTRA COOLER (£49)
Firewire & Video Editing 1 x IEEE 1394a FIREWIRE PORT ONBOARD
TV Card DUAL DIGITAL TV CARD (Watch/Record Freeview on PC)
Office Software Microsoft® Office® 2007 Home & Student (3 Licence) (£69)
Warranty 1 Year Return-to-Base incl 1st Month Free Collect & Return
Delivery DELIVERY BY 10 A.M WITHIN UK MAINLAND (MON - FRI) (£19)
Build Time Standard Build - Approximately 10 to 12 working days
Total order Price £2,789.00

Drop one of those GTX295s, it's already a dual chip card and powerful enough for what you want. Also, swap the CPU for a 920 and clock to 4ghz. Razor will show you how, it's easy. You don't need a £165 PSU either, you can go with something around 700w for £80 no problem. You could even save some more on the mobo, that's a real pricey board for hardcore clockers so you sould easily save another £100 on that.

[wolvers]

Originally Posted by Razor

Yes in a heart beat.

It wouldn't surprise me if you regularly do!!

[Razor]

Originally Posted by wolvers

It wouldn't surprise me if you regularly do!!

If I had the cash I would mate.

[tomanator]

Originally Posted by Razor

Spot on mate.


If the OP cant build his own then get CCL to build it for your for £70 including 1 years onsite warranty.

Custom Build Services from CCL - Awarded PC Pro Best Online Retailer of the Year 2008 for PC, PC Components, Laptops, Notebook, Computer Components, Intel Servers, Hard Drives, PC Memory

Or have a look at ocuk prebuilt machines, they are overclocked out of the box and allot cheaper than 5k.

"Ultima Eliminator" Intel Core i7 920 D0 Stepping (SLBEJ) 2.66Ghz @ 4.00GHz DDR3 System

i've actually been to the ccl shop in bradford as its near me and it looks the dogs b******s in there, very professional... even got nice leather sofas in the customer area!

[Dak]

I did try the CCL website but I couldn't work out how to configure something that would work - seems you just buy the bits and they assemble, but I am not sure which bits fit together so got scared off.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Dak

I did try the CCL website but I couldn't work out how to configure something that would work - seems you just buy the bits and they assemble, but I am not sure which bits fit together so got scared off.

Dont be put off. If its not compatible they will tell you.

You can also phone them up and ask for help or someone here can help you spec up a pc.

[Usama]

I got my rig about 9 months ago for under 1k from Chillblast, spec in sig.

Chillblast

[Simes]

Originally Posted by wolvers

Drop one of those GTX295s, it's already a dual chip card and powerful enough for what you want. Also, swap the CPU for a 920 and clock to 4ghz. Razor will show you how, it's easy. You don't need a £165 PSU either, you can go with something around 700w for £80 no problem. You could even save some more on the mobo, that's a real pricey board for hardcore clockers so you sould easily save another £100 on that.

+1 on above. The twin GTX 295 sounds fantastic, but with the type of use you've described, one of them will more than sufficient. I'd probably say that £80 for a 700W PSU is the minimum I'd spend - another £20 - £30 would open up a lot of choice of quality manufacturers.

If you're getting network storage, will you need a 1.5Tb HDD?

The ASUS cooler uses 90mm fans and reviews have stated they're fairly noisy compared to the 120mm fans on most aftermarket CPU coolers. Have a look here for some cooler test results. I think these are all either one or two 120mm fans.

I would personally avoid the Office H&S version as it doesn't ship with Outlook. If your kids are in full time education and the PC is just for personal use, Software 4 Schools has very good value deals on Office software.

[Simes]

Originally Posted by Razor

Yes in a heart beat.

I thought you had one anyway

[Dak]

Really appreciating your help here. Thanks. CCL do a pre-built machine so I am going to try and start with that and comment on the upgraded bits that I was thinking of.

Buy CCL GAMER PC - Intel CoreT i7-920 (Vista Home Premium 64bit)* from CCL - Online Retailer of the Year 2008, 2007 & 2006 for laptops, desktops and computer hardware

CPU Intel CoreT i7-920 Processor
Fine with this if the 950 isnt worth the extra few £
RAM 6GB of Corsair XMS3 1600MHz DDR3 (3x 2Gb Strips)
Again, fine but I was reccommended 2000Mhz strips?
Graphics Card Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB
Again I was recc Dual 295's. Single 295?
Motherboard Asus P6T
This was the bit I was advised to spend as much as possible on so that other things can be upgraded later.
Hard Drives 300Gb WD VelociRaptor & 1Tb Samsung Spinpoint Hard Drive
Fine
Case Antec Nine Hundred Two
Actually prefer the look of the 1200 but no problem.
PSU 680W BFG LS-680
Was told to go for the best PSU I can afford for future proofing / low level loading and silence....
Optical Drive LG GGC-H20L Blu-Ray / HD-DVD Reader and LightScribe DVDRW
Fine

[Razor]

Go for a P6T Deluxe V2 its worth the extra few quid over the standard P6T (I have one , its a great mobo ).

Drop the raptor HDD and either get a 1.5tb HDD or pick an SSD card like a samsung, g.skill, ocz. 60gb should be plenty for your OS.

Case wise look at silverstone, lan-li, coolermaster cases.

If you want to overclock your cpu which you will have to if you dont want to bottleneck the 4870X2 then get a Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 cpu cooler with a 120mm Noctua NF-P12 fan. Stock coolers are rubbish and aren't designed for overclocking or silent running.

PSU - Look at the corasir HX range. I am running a HX620 with watercooling and all the gear listed in my sig. I would need a bigger psu if I was to add another gpu to my system. If you think you might be doing this then go for an 850watt psu. Another good make is Enermax.

[eiren]

You should build it yourself. You can probably save yourself an enormous amount of money doing so. There's plenty of people on here to help if you ever get stuck, or are nervous about it (it's really easy, honestly).

The downsides to building yourself are obviously you can't just drop it off to get fixed where you bought it from... but to be honest I am sure you'd get better support and advice on here and other places on the internet.

If I were you, I would only get one GTX295 for now... and then wait for the new DirectX 11 cards to come out at the end of the year. A single GTX295 or HD4870 X2 will tear through any game by itself at the moment, so you don't need the second one... and it's not future proofing yourself, since they won't support DX11.

[Dak]

okay version 3 or so. Thanks for your patience. What about this set up which I am about to email CCL about? Some bits are in there are they are reduced (eg the motherboard):

CPU Intel CoreT i7-920 Processor
Scythe Mugen 2 CPU Cooler
Noctua NF-P12 Vortex-Control 120mm Quiet Case Fan
6GB Corsair Dominator GT 2000MHz DDR3 Triple Channel Memory Kit BFG GeForce GTX 295 1792MB
Asus P6T7 WS SuperComputer ATX Motherboard
128GB Corsair Extreme Series X128 2.5" SSD 1TB Samsung SpinPoint F1 RAID Class 3.5" Hard Disk Drive
Cooler Master ATCS 840 ATX Case
850W Corsair HX850W Modular Power Supply
Pioneer BDR-203BK-SW Blu-Ray Disc Rewriter and DVDRW Drive
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional Series
NEWLink USB2.0 Internal 12 in 1 Card Reader / Writer
Logitech G19 Gaming keyboard
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64 Bit SP1
Office 2007 Standard

I am not sure of a number of things, for example:

What other items I need for it to all fit and work
What CCL custom build package I need
If that motherboard is too OTT for the set up
Which make GTX295 Graphics card to go for
If the PSU is adequate
Does the BD Rewriter do CDRW as well
Do I need a sound card at all with an onboard one
Is that the best operating system? What about upgrade to windows 7?
Can I get a basic office word / excel / ppt / outlook package cheaper?

Getting there, and thanks again.

[Simes]

Excellent choice on CPU, cooler, case fan(s), graphics card, SSD, HDD, case, PSU, DVD, soundcard.

Don't know how much of a benefit 2000Mhz RAM will give you over a 1600MHz set. I believe that without overclocking, you'll be limited to 1066MHz anyway. Although you should be able to overclock 2000MHz RAM upto 2000MHz with no real problems, I don't know how much of a real-world gain that would give over a set of 1600 clocked to that.

I hadn't heard of that model of mobo but have had a quick look online. It seems a bit OTT for what your usage is (7 PCIE x16 - my god!). I have the standard ASUS P6T and it's very good. I would say the P6T V2 Deluxe would be as far as you'd need to go.

Do you really need a 3.5" floppy drive? Or are you hankering for the old eight-track days?

Other equipment required - monitor and mouse.
Not sure about CCL's build options so can't answer that one.
See above re mobo.
BFG Nvidia cards always get a good write-up.
PSU is spot on, with plenty left in the tank for future upgrades.
BD rewriter should do CDRW as well, I believe.
If you or your kids want a more immersive gaming / BluRay experience, the sound card will definitely give you that.
Ask CCL if the Vista will come with a free (future) Windows 7 upgrade - can't hurt.
I previously posted (6 posts up) an option on a cheaper version of Office if your kids are at school / uni / college.

Very nice spec though. I'll just go and turn slowly green now.