[Baldfox]

Hi guys, I am new to this, and think i might have made a typical newbie mistake.

I am an amateur home cinema fan and am looking to take the next step, but fear I have been a bit hasty. I am looking to learn RS232 control, and recently bought all the pc com cards and cables and am now plugging in various bits of kit to try and talk to, alas with no joys.. am using a pc application called Termite, as it seemed to be the only thing I could get my hands on to try and use as a terminal.

I don't seem to be able to get any feedback back at all. I am trying to speak to a sky digibox (Panasonic DSB20).

I wanted to see if I could at least get some feedback and basic control, before I upgraded my amp. I want to move to an onkyo 906 or 876 and use an AMX axcent3 to control it together with a pioneer 5080 screen. I bought the AMX kit on ebay, but the guy's not been able to supply the software or the PSU for it (I got the axcent 3, an rf gateway and the touchpanel). He said he'd get me the software, the PSU I guess I should have read the small print doh!

So my problem is, I have no amx software (will pay for it!) or the psu for the controller, and my PC is not exactly helping me with RS232 control.

Can someone please point me in the right direction ?? I'd love to be in a situation where I could actually get the serial codes for various bits of kit and then play around with them all through the AMX controller.

Have I bitten off more than I can chew ? *sigh*

[101music]

Yes. sorry

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by 101music

Yes. sorry

A bit harsh, Perhaps AMX is too big a jump for the first go at Automation! Depends on your level of experience in software and programming. a Philips TSU9600 and RFX9600 might be a better first step as there is alot more support for the amatuer programmer and some quite big communities of people offering help and support to amatuer and pro alike.

[SMCSI]

Unfortunately you have a situation that I think many enthusiasts find themselves. It looks very tempting to buy high end control equipment from eBay, but it's not as easy as it may seem to set up and program. I noticed that quite a few of the auctions end up re-listed.

I very much doubt if any installers here would provide the software as we have spent time many hours in classrooms and on site learning to set up the hardware and program systems.

In order to set up the system you have you will need:

- A fundamental understanding of the RS232 protocol (plenty on the internet)
- Device RS232 protocols (some manufacturers will provide them to the public)
- Soldering skills (get a 'helping hands' with magnifying glass)
- Cat5 cable will do to practise connections
- 9 pin male and female D-type connectors

With the above you should be able to control the Onkyo and Plasma from the PC. You should be able to view feedback from the Sky box by setting your port to 57600,8,NONE,1,NONE you will see a pattern in the feedback which can be parsed for usable touchpanel feedback. There are time stamps, programme descriptions etc in there.

I'm afraid when it comes to the AMX programming, unless you have programmed in a language such as C before then your going to struggle big style. Even if you have, without the fundamental AMX courses under your belt it is a very steep learning curve. There is a reason programmers charge £350+ a day, and it's not greed

To give you an idea of program structure I've attached a very old bit of AMX code I did after completing AMX I about 4 years ago.

[crestron boy]

you could always contact amx uk and ask about going on one of the amx training course's

if you have a interest in computing then with a bit of hard work and going on the training course you should be able to pick it up

also have you ever programmed C++ before or anything like that. if you have and think its really boring then i would probably stay away from amx

[SMCSI]

Officially AMX training courses are only available to businesses with trade accounts and have purchased a demo kit. They are friendly people so may help you out, but don't expect technical support if your an end user they only help out dealers.

[crestron boy]

a friend of mine was on the amx essentials course in london last week and told me that he was the only person on the course who was employed. everyone else was gaining knowledge to tweak there home systems or using the course as a spring board to make them more attractive to a employer

[SMCSI]

Well I stand corrected then

I can imagine the conversation with the original installer after the customer has 'tweaked' the system.

Customer 'I've just been tweaking the programme on my NI-2100 and nothing works now, help!'

Installer 'Sorry, did you say you wanted the number for AMX training?'

I'm not sure what I would do in a situation where the customer had tweaked and broken it. Guess it would be embarrassing if they made it better though

[ISG_Cordoba]

Hello pal, first of all if you still think about going AMX, I encourage you to go for it. I can help you to figure it out if you really need and AMX system, because I'm Dealer. If you can explain a little bit more about what you really want for you as an end-user, i will try to give you a good advice.

[Butterz]

I had the exact same problem as you - well, maybe a little different.

I bought a house with a homebuilt AMX system and a homebuilt Vantage system, which were both left stripped of programming. Having some basic programming background, I wanted to try and get the systems up and running rather than sell off the equipment on ebay, as in my small home home automation is a tad overkill.

Anyways, I went looking for help and the majority of responses I received were of the polite "unfortunately, dealer only" variety. I ended up posting the question over in the AVS forums and somebody eventually helped me find the software for all the equipement.

If you've got some basic programming background the help files that come with the software should get you going. It ain't rocket science, but I understand people not wanting to part with knowledge they've just spent lots of money on.

PM me with any additional questions you might have.

[SMCSI]

It's not that dealers want to protect there investment, this is our job, our income, how we pay the mortgage!!. You wouldn't expect another occupation to freely offer to do a job for you. I know the OP asked for the software and not to have a system written for nothing, but from experience offering to help a little often turns into a lot of work. Especially in such a specialised area.

It's very embarrassing to eventually have to email someone and tell them you can't help them any more because it's becoming too much work!

Yes programming isn't rocket science, but this is only one of the many skills we have to learn, develop and keep current.

[Butterz]

Sorry if my previous comments sounded a tad flippant.

What I really meant to say is that with a bit of programming / hardware knowledge you can do the most basic of things with a system. My situation is a bit unique in the fact that I was left with everything installed with a new home purchase and absolutely no budget for programming.

If I could afford it, I would definitely hire a certified installer / programmer but at the moment I'm trying to do the best with what I have.

[SMCSI]

No worries. Your situation is somewhat strange, must have been a bit of a strange person to wipe the program on the controller!

Is your a modern system such as a NI-x000 series controller? These are a bit easier to integrate. Did they wipe the interface on the touchpanels too?

I also think many programmers would do your system at a fixed price to get it up and running. Many are like me and put in lots more hours than we actually charge for, I'd rather do a few hours for free and have a happy customer.

[Butterz]

It was a little strange, although it's been a good learning experience. The system was actually a contentious issue during the sale. The former owner (a HA installer) included the touch panels in the contract (agreement of sale) along with the control unit, without really wanting to.

We, having no idea what the capabilities of the system really were, fought to get everything that was included in the contract. He eventually conceded everything, but left the system wiped to factory defaults.

We don't have a lot of AMX programmers here in Toronto, although quite a few Crestron people. The few people I did get in contact with didn't want to touch a homebuilt wiped system with a 10 foot pole. AMX even referred me to the company that the former owner works for!

Anyways, learning the Vantage system was quite rewarding as now I've got everything up and running with scenes and such, with on / off at sundown and sunrise. My NI-3000 is hooked up, although I don't have any equipment to control with it aside from my garage door

[Butterz]

Forgot to really answer your question...

The control unit is a NI-3000, and he did wipe the touch panels.

[crestron boy]

wiping the panels and processor is just petty

did he give you any reason why he did it?

[Butterz]

No, but we didn't really chat after he conceded everything.

I'm guessing that he was a little mad at himself for not checking over his agreement of sale carefully enough.

It pays to re-read the fine print.

[Baldfox]

Someone's given me axcess but it's an old version. Only works under the dos environment, and even then I cannot get the bugger to work. Touch panel design seems straight forward enough. Some of the examples of codes that people have sent me have been great. I welcome any tutorials. Also if anyone is around the essex, east london area, would be good to know, especially if you'd like to earn some extra beer money !

I refuse to give in just yet...

Thought about getting on a course too, but again wanted to play around with it first so at least I'd have a vague idea what they'd be referring to. Kind of pre-reading if you will !

Another forum told me I should ship it back and go with crestron instead as a lot easier with the software - want to give this a fair crack first !

[Kotch]

I'm not going to ask where you got it from.

I feel your pain, but really if you have the possibility of sending it back I would.
This package seems to have been seriously miss sold.

What you've bought here is some discontinued bits of kit, that were doubtless one day part of a $$$ install.

AMX & Crestron are the best solutions available and are only sold to trained dealers so they have "some" faith it will be done correctly.

The training is free and as such you need a business account with them to take it.

To be fair you prob could programme a system this simple yourself given time.
The thing is you're not supposed to so it'll be hard if not impossible to get help,if you're going to be buying equipment like this you should be prepared to pay a programmer, even finding one that has experience with stuff pre-Netlinx I think would be fairly difficult.

If you can move on I'd say a Pronto setup would be much better anyway.
What panel have you got?
Have you switched it on?
The old ones really look dated now.

Really all I can say is I don't think Crestron or Amx will let you take any courses or get access to any software unless you plan to do it professionally.

Also Crestron is just as hard as AMX, and takes just as long to learn.
In fact AMX is probably easier if you have experience of programming with conditional statements e.t.c

[KW1816]

Might be worth getting a feel for RS232 comms first - then look to see how AMX apply it. Each manufacturer has their own implementation of the protocol but at the end of the day all you need is a PC with a serial port and Hyperterminal.

Once you've got the port settings (Baud rate etc) open a connection and power cycle the device. Usually you'll see a splash screen showing the connection is live. RS232 can be either ASCII (plain text) or HEX.
The SKY box is a poor test in that (IIRC) it's output only and it's HEX so making sense of the output is difficult. Some manufacturers implement help (type 'help' or '?') some echo the commands and a result (i.e show that the command is recieved and a result), some don't.

As an example I've got a Autopatch (now AMX) matrix switcher I'm controlling via RS232. The commands are very simple and documented (e.g. CL1I1O1T switches input 1 to ouput 1 on level 1) but you get no feedback to confirm the command or check the syntax etc.

Cheers
Kevin