Loewe...component in and prog scan..my findings!

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Well so far this is what I've found on our Loewe Aconda using a DV88 as source.

Aconda does have ability to choose between, RGB, YsUV and YUVsync on composite, all on the AV3 scart input. I can confirm that all three settings work...sort of. Well, I can get a picture with the DVD player outputtingg the appropriate interlaced signal and the TV set to receive that signal.

I have found that using these input type signals the TV exhibits a white clipping problem. ie High brightness detail is lost and it's not possible to retrieve it by lowering contrast. I'm going to investigate this more fully.

Here were settings I used for all. Checked with AVIA. Contrast40, Normal,Brightness 25, Sharp1, Colour 40.

Now on to the prog scan thing. I compared a composite, YsUV and RGB signal on an a-b loop of Gladiator, Battle of Carthage ntsc region1 DVD. I saw no difference in the interlacing artefacts. Each signal exhibited the sort of problems associated with a lack of 3:2 detection or just no de-interlacing at all. I will now go and check what happens when you disable byte 3, bit5 in the service menu........So far though I would be very charitable in saying that the Aconda has particularily good de-interlacing.

Incidentally while writing this I've just had a visit from PegFace (forum member reknowned for his BARCO801 crt)....OK off to play a bit more!

Gordon

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

OK part two:

Put same loop on, feeding component with sync on Y. Turned Byte3 Bit5 on and off. Saw no difference in artefacts. Still tons of them.

Now going to see if I can sort out the white clipping thing. So far though it looks like the only way to get a high quality, or what I would call high quality, de-interlaced signal to one of these things is through the VGA input card.

Gordon

[brattle]

Gordon, Thanks for going to all the trouble. It would be very interesting to see what Lowrider has his settings set to.

[Matt Horne]

Hi... This is just the topic I've been looking for.. as I am thinking of buying a Vitros for use with a DV88.

So Gordon is the current consensus then that the TV does not de-interlace the signal?? I have to say I dod not completely follw what you did (whats YsuV?).

Is the picture you are getting any good ?.. are you using a DV88 with or without the Prog Scan upgrade??

I want to ensure that I get the best pic possible.. I also want to here from lowrider on this..

Cheers

Matt

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Originally posted by Matt Horne


So Gordon is the current consensus then that the TV does not de-interlace the signal?? I have to say I dod not completely follw what you did (whats YsuV?).

Is the picture you are getting any good ?.. are you using a DV88 with or without the Prog Scan upgrade??

The picture is actually pretty good for a TV set. YUV is the nomenclature that Loewe use on their sets for a component (YPrPb) signal. The little s in my YsUV signifies that the sync signal is carried on the Y constituent.

All these tests were done with a standard DV88 outputting through its SCART output an interlaced NTSC signal. The only way to feed a Progressive scan signal IN to the Loewe's is through the VGA board.

From what I've done today I would say that you'll get vastly superiour de-interlacing by using some form of off-board scaling. I am unable to tell from watching that scene on Galdiator whether the Aconda was actually 100Hz ing or progscanning. They all looked the same.....except the composite fed signal which had other colour video decoder artefacts as well.

I didn't specifically try to compare RGB v YUV(YPrPb) input other than to check for de-interlacing artefacts. However, both these signals exhibited the white clipping problem but not to the extent that they didn't look better than the composite image.

A TV tube works in RGB. A DVD is encoded in YPrPb. The lack of any obvious difference between feeding the Aconda an RGB or YPrPb signal from an Arcam DV88 would suggest that the DVD players ability to turn YPrPb to RGB is as good as the TV's ability to do the same thing. ie it ends up RGB anyway you're just comparing where it's done.

I want to look in to this more but damn customers keep getting in the way. Looks like it'll have to wait for a short while.

As it stands I still feel these Loewe chassis TV's are the best 32" flat screens I've been able to play with. I don't believe they have exceptional de-interlacing though.......but then I've never seen a normal TV that does!

Gordon

[Nic Rhodes]

Gordon

Can you confirm they do have de-interlacing? I remain to be convinced and have a sneaking suspicion that they don't. I thought that the might de-interlace the PS VGA input and just do 100 Hz on the other inputs. I have no proof to hand just a suspicion....

Tube specs?

Hope you are feeling better, sorry I missed you the other day.

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Hi Dominic: I can't say I can tell if it's prog scanning or not. Just looking at the artefacts on Galdiator I would say if it is it's not very good at it. I need more time and some test patterns to try and find out more I think.

We have a customer who has managed to get the thing to sync to around 520P from his PC then it gives up. I can't believe it will do 576P. Loewe themselves say that it'll show an 800 x 600 signal as interlaced when fed to the VGA input. The US sites ay it'll do 1080i/540P. Perhaps the US version is slightly different!

Gordon

Gordon

[Nic Rhodes]

Originally posted by Gordon, Convergent-AV
Loewe themselves say that it'll show an 800 x 600 signal as interlaced when fed to the VGA input. [/B]

Gordon

The input signal to the VGA input is progressive, if Loewe are saying it will show 800 x 600 as interlaced I might be right in my thinking that they de-interlace the incoming signal. Doooh.

I still have a sneaking suspicions on this. I think the tube can only do 16khz, therefore it can't do progressive scan without de-interlacing it. The Loewe is based on Philpis tubes and their UK Prog scan capable tubes weren't available when this Loewe range was launched

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

They say it'll show 640 X 480 progressive and 800 x 600 INTERLACED.

Having fed a 480P RGsB signal to it, using the infamous Star Trek Insurrection scene I can confirm that I''m sure it does show 480P, not 480i on the VGA input, if fed a progressive signal.

Gordon

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Just thought a bit more about this Nic. The tube isn't the limiting factor here. It's the electonics driving it. Loewe's chassis may be better than the Philips one, indeed I'm sure it is.

Of course the scan lines may be overlapping with the tube they use but that's another topic!

Gordon

[Jeff]

I don't use my Loewe anymore (sitting under the stairs at the mo), but I can confirm that it does do 32Khz through the VGA port. Gordon, was the Gladiator DVD you tested R1 or R2? To me R1 stuff always looked better and the scan lines less visible, this led me to believe that 60Hz R1 stuff was being deinterlaced and R2 stuff used regular 100Hz. I also remember reading something on the net that confirms this.

Jeff

[Nic Rhodes]

Interesting stuff guys, if anyone has anymore info please keep us up to date. It looks like a PS NTSC vs 100hz PAL. Not the ideal solution, didn't lowrider have the solution to that?

I have a friend who is split between these TVs and Tosh.

[Napoleon]

Hello,i know it's a bit off topic but is it possible to replace a televisions shadow mask.I have yellowish colour patches over a lot of the screen.The dealer is going in circles.

Sorry, I only saw this thread now,

I didn´t have to change any standard settings, except the AV3, that I changed to "auto... YsUV"

Loewe´s tech said that somewhere in the service menu there are NTSC and PAL Proscan settings, but they are ON on the latest software version, are you sure you tested with the latest version ?

I do get a much better image than using RGB input from the same DV88 from Arcam...

Check this page under Digital Technology...

http://www.sensoryscience.com/default.asp?area=loewe