Blurry text question again

[magikkk]

Anybody else find their terestrial TV teletext/ceefax quite blurry on their RPTV? Mine's a 46WHO8B TOSH. I'm asking now so that if that's unusual it's another thing I'll bring up with the engineer when he checks my brightness fluctuation problem.<br />I thought if it wasn't a focus thing on my Tv it was maybe that teletext couldn't handle being blown up so large?<br />Comments appreciated

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David<br /> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[magikkk]

Craig

The engineer I had come round was USELESS knew nothing, so I am really non the wiser. Hi Spek where I bought the set from said he was a Toshiba agent - which I take to mean not Toshiba. I'm considering my next move.<br /> <br />You are the frist person to reply to this repeated post. Perhaps others could comment.

Some of the numbers on the convergence screen are sharper than others on my set - how much that inpacts on the picture I'm not sure. I don't know if we can really expect 'super' sharp ( Delta et al - correct me if I'm wrong)on an RPTV because of the nature of the beast but 'sharp' yes.

I think maybe for those of us not used to this size of image we naturally look closer and more critically at what is before us. I mean there is a wide range of quality of transfer on DVD's alone but if your convergance screen stays over blurry and so does your on-screen picture then it could be a problem.

[mart.stokes]

I remember a few years ago when Toshiba released its first 40" Widescreen RP set. One magazine voted it their TV of the year, the other (I'm talking HCC vs HE here) believed it was a pile of pooh with crap convergence and a lot of it was out of focus.

Who was right? They both were! I can only give minor pieces of advice;

1) No RP telly is as good as a normal CRT telly for brightnes and crispness of picture. Have a look at the teletext and see if blue figues are more blurry than red figures than green figures, it may be one tube out of focus.

2) No two TVs are the same (manufacturing variances are disgusting at the moment, compare TVs to variances in the same models of speakers and amps and you'll understand what I mean), I took my own advice and bought the display model of my Pioneer 50" telly because I had checked out how long it had been on display and noticed all of the minor "problems" and assured myself I could have a good go at sorting them (my telly is NOT perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I knew what I was buying).

3) I am dreading buying my next telly so much that although I know the 56 inch Tosh kicks sh*t out of my Pioneer I JUST CAN'T TAKE THE RISK IN BUYING ONE! This isn't a piece of advice, just a piece of paranoia on my part.

4) When reporting a problem get as much info as possible. Other comments around here about the cross hairs not being the same size may be important, it could be that one tube is blooming and others not, it could be the linearity of the image (the blue tube is set "bigger" than the others if the cross hair is a single one in the centre of the picture perhaps).

5) Understand that owning an RP set is a thankless task, a labour of love. Every time you pull the thing about it may need the convergence resetting.

This posting is one of those where if another owner could see what you were on about he would say either "you are paranoid, that looks fine" or "you have a major problem there mate". It IS difficult to know what to expect from an RP set, my teletext can hardly be described as sharp, but I can read it easily from 14 foot away. You're not going right up to the screen are you? My telly looks terrible from 6 inches away!

[delta]

A properly adjusted RP tv can outsmart any conventional tube set. They can be as bright, geometry is perfect and convergence can be adjusted. Very few conventional sets display accurate convergence. It's unfortunate that few stores bother to set up these tv's and more often they are inputting an analogue signal. The RP tv looks bad on analogue because the signal and the system is bad! Input a digital signal and see the difference even on a composite output. Digital text is pin sharp.

Delta you seem to be the main man concerning tosh rear pro tv, i bought a tosh 36" set but sent it back as i got it instead of a rear pro to avoid the convergence geometry problems. I got them anyway! i am thinking about 46" model do you have any advice about purchase online, hi- spek seem cheapest but wont provide engineer to set it up.<br />Having said that i had 4 round mine to fix Tosh three of them were as much use as a chocolate fire guard...

[magikkk]

Thanks for all your comments gentlemen <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[magikkk]

Tell you what though, whatever the setup of my Tosh right now it's a damn sight sharper and more pleasing to watch than the rear projection thing (I assume it was) they had in one of the smaller screens at my local Odeon to watch 'Cats and Dogs' with the kids. <br />I can only assume that the local Comet/Currys/Dixons has made a few people redundant and they're the ones in charge of the cinema setup, either that or I need a visit to the opticians!

Hi,

I have the 40WH08B set and text and picture quality is very blurry, i have tried to fix ithis in the convergence setting but I find this is very blurry too.

Should I contact tosihiba and tell them?

What is their number?

Thanks

[mart.stokes]

[quote]Originally posted by delta:<br /><strong>A properly adjusted RP tv can outsmart any conventional tube set. They can be as bright, geometry is perfect and convergence can be adjusted. Very few conventional sets display accurate convergence. It's unfortunate that few stores bother to set up these tv's and more often they are inputting an analogue signal. The RP tv looks bad on analogue because the signal and the system is bad! Input a digital signal and see the difference even on a composite output. Digital text is pin sharp.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Dave, really? I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. There is no guarantee of perfect geometry on an RP set unless it is LCD, think of the route the light has to take (however I agree that current "normal" CRT sets are also a nightmare from a geometry point of view, asking too much of flat screen technology if you ask me). You have potential geometry problems caused by 3 individual tiny TVs being used (the tubes) followed by anything introduced by the mirror and all of this is "expanded" en-route to the screen. Don't forget that the three tubes also fire at the mirror from different places in space. Although you probably can make an RP set as "bright" as a CRT set the tubes won't last long and I suspect the black level will be forced high and you will have blooming, again tiny little 7 inch TVs having a picture blown up to 40 inches plus.

I admit that the ability to adjust stuff from the service menu is great and given the correct amount of time you can pull in the convergence and geometry pretty good.

I had noticed that newer Toshibas do have a multi-point convergence check (My Pioneer has 9 point, but that isn't enough, I still have to dive into the service menu) but these tend to be based around (correct me if I am wrong) blue and red adjustment so any geometry error on the base of green remains.

Anyhow Dave, I hope;

1) You can prove me wrong.<br />2) Tell me what TV you have so I can start considering one (although I would prefer a projector as my next purchase).<br />3) If I do buy it you can set it up for me!

Cheers <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[ 10-08-2001: Message edited by: mjs ]</p>

[delta]

Mart S

You are welcome to come see my tv and judge for yourself. It is the Toshiba WHO8B 46" screen and it is the best RP tv I have owned. Toshiba have since introduced new, improved versions of this tv. The geometry is almost perfect and the convergence is very easy to adjust. The picture can be stunning given a good input. What many people don't appreciate is that the PAL system was introduced at nearly 40 years ago when a 26" screen was considered to be huge and at that size most of its weaknesses were invisible. However blowing up PAL analogue to anything above that will show its inherent weaknesses. Digital PAL does overcome many of these and on a large screen tv the picture is greatly improved. Even so, the bigger the picture the more likely you are to see errors, (that are always there), and the need for finer adjustment is vital. Most RP tv's are able to do this, it is up to the user to read the manual and find out how. Shortly after purchasing my tv I had an engineer come out and make the finer adjustments for me, under the warranty of course. I purchase my tv's from Sound & Vision in Bolton, who are very competitive on price and who do provide an excellent after sales service.

Although LCD and DLP can produce a better geometry, CRT still can not be beaten for picture quality. Plasma is close but not close enough to justify the extra expense.

[mart.stokes]

Delta, oh don't get me wrong, I love the fact that these things can be adjusted and I love RP sets (but would prefer a projector more if I had the money <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> ). I just reeled at your original claim that geometry on RP sets is "perfect" and they can be made as bright as CRT sets.

I'm glad you managed to get an engineer who knew what he was doing to adjust the set, you jammy bugger!!!

Do you use any test DVDs to evaluate your TV? Have you compared your model to the 56 incher? Although my TV is "only" three years old this does tend to be an eternity in home cinema terms and I quite like the sound of the 56 incher (still scared of spending nearly £3000 and ending up with a "dud").

[mart.stokes]

Delta, couldn't agree more about RP CRT compared to RP LCD etc. No contest, even the Grand Wega struggles at about £6000!!!!

[delta]

I was fortunate to be allowed to play with a Grand Vega for about an hour, but I failed to be impressed. The picture was typical of LCD and also very dull and difficult to adjust. For £5K I expected much better performance. The Tosh 56" is equally as good as the 46" and well worth checking out. (Try Sound & Vison, Bolton). I am very fussy when it comes to perfect pictures and I can assure everyone who reads this that the Toshiba takes some beating. Last night I watched the R1 'The Green Mile' and the picture was stunning, absolutley flawless and pin sharp. No converegnce errors and rock steady. I use a Sony 725 DVD player by the way.