Possible problem with DIY CAT5 speaker cable ?

conman · 22-08-2008, 3:19 PM

Hi
Congirl and I just had a chance to do some DIY Cat5 speaker cable using TNT triple-T method.

Cat5e UTP 100m reels (from CPC)

each speaker cable consists of 6 cat5e.
2 for the Hi, and 4 for Low. The colour for + and white for -
terminated with banana plugs. (they are slightly bigger than the cable but all fixed with double screws locking.) no soldering.

System:
Source/amp : (all in one)MF KW250s (100hrs used)
Speakers :B&W 804s (few yrs old))
Cable: QED silver Anniversary bi-wire (few yrs old)
Mains: Tacima conditioner/ Manufacture power cable

After listening for several hours, I found that

Hi: a bit synthetic and slightly annoying, congirl does not like the high at all. The effect is slightly different from the QED. I dont like it much.

Mid: the QED gives clearer sound.

Sound stage: better than the QED, bigger and wider

Low: i can feel that the bass is alot tighter and really go lower than the QED.

In conclusion, i am 100% satisfy with the new speaker cable, im not sure what went wrong in the construction or the quality of the cables, or just my system characteristic or it is just way it is.

any comment and advice will be very helpful.

PS: We spend over 10 hrs on the DIY......

Gregory · 23-08-2008, 8:34 AM

I confess that I'm slightly surprised that there is any difference at all, as long as the old cables were large enough in cross sectional area. Are you sure that this isn't an effect you are hearing because you are listening for one? You could check by doing a blind test, though it would be a bit laborious.

You say that there is no soldering. I'd be tempted to use silver solder on the ends, if only to prevent issues/tarnish downstream. Stripping the ends back and remaking them would be a pain with CAT5!

BTW, I also have CAT5 cables, based on triple -T model, but buried in a wall, so rather harder to do a comparative check ... and to be honest I can't be bothered to spend the time since I am of the view it would make very little difference unless you have a very picky amp that wants high or low capacitance (Naim for example).

conman · 23-08-2008, 2:14 PM

thanks for the comment...

yes i did A/B test. Both set of speaker cables are on Banana plug and they are easy to switch.

could it be the source of recording? I use normal pop/rock cd (e.g. duffy). Can not tell much on other cds like ( classical and diane krall)

conman · 04-09-2008, 2:22 PM

I have try

1. Use the ticker part of Cat5 Braid for High (just swap between high and low of CAT5)

Result: High: nothing change
Low: bass is not as tight as it use to be...

Conclusion: the LOW need ticker part of CAT5 cable.

2. QED silver ani to drive the HIGH
CAT5 braid (just low part 4 cables) to LOW

Result: High: i can not tell any different (at the moment), maybe the QED is more focus.
Low: tight and polite as usual

I think there might be some RFI bothering my high here....

PS: i already have kimber PK14 and tacima as main conditioner.

Still... not happy with the high...

thinking of ... using enamelled copper and solid silver SOLO or Combibation

any thought?

Mr Incredible · 04-09-2008, 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conman

......

each speaker cable consists of 6 cat5e.
2 for the Hi, and 4 for Low. The colour for + and white for -
terminated with banana plugs. (they are slightly bigger than the cable but all fixed with double screws locking.) no soldering.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ffrc_e.html

Suggests 6 cables for two speakers, 3 on each speaker, one for treble and two for bass.

More copper *should* be OK, but I'm wondering about the amount of inductance and/or capacitance in the tweeter cable and how suitable it is for your amp.

Off the TNT web site:

"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Further it can be said that a geometry should be employed that reduces Inductance and resistance to a sensible level, combined with having only modest Capacitance so that "twitchy" Amplifiers are not being upset.[/FONT]"

I used 3 cables per speaker (as above diagram) and the results were excellent.

conman · 04-09-2008, 5:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

More copper *should* be OK, but I'm wondering about the amount of inductance and/or capacitance in the tweeter cable and how suitable it is for your amp.

I used 3 cables per speaker (as above diagram) and the results were excellent.

Thank you for reply.

I have no idea what seems to be suitable amount for my amp.....

Try 2 and 4 for HI and they both sound the same (some CD really gives me headache and tooth ache.

I guess increasing the copper wont change anything.

However, 4 cable for the LOW is a must.

PS:is there any chance that it should be recording? I put on Boyzone : No Matter what and the high is just terrible.

Mr Incredible · 04-09-2008, 7:35 PM

Your amp may not like the Cat5.

As for 4 cable for LOW is a must, TNT-Audio's "research" and many people's experience in here, show that 2 for LOW for most home speakers is adequate.

conman · 04-09-2008, 9:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

Your amp may not like the Cat5.

As for 4 cable for LOW is a must, TNT-Audio's "research" and many people's experience in here, show that 2 for LOW for most home speakers is adequate.

Is this mean i am using too many cat5?

Mr Incredible · 04-09-2008, 9:28 PM

I doubt it. But it would have saved you a lot of work if you'd stuck with the TNT recommendation!

conman · 04-09-2008, 9:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

I doubt it. But it would have saved you a lot of work if you'd stuck with the TNT recommendation!

I am sorry my English is not very good.

Do you mean, the 6 cat5 cable per speaker will be ok with my system? and 3 Cat5 per speaker will be just fine for me too?

So what would be your recommendation then... i am now stuck with 6 Cat5 per speaker and a set of QED silver ani.

ps: these cables are about 8 m. long.

Mr Incredible · 04-09-2008, 9:51 PM

Quote:

Do you mean, the 6 cat5 cable per speaker will be ok with my system? and 3 Cat5 per speaker will be just fine for me too?

In my opinion 6 or 3 **should** be fine. As I said earlier, your amp may be particularly sensitive to some of the electrical characteristics of Cat5 cable, which mean that either 6 or 3 may not be suitbale, or neither of them. I don't know enough to advise beyond that.

conman · 04-09-2008, 9:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

In my opinion 6 or 3 **should** be fine. As I said earlier, your amp may be particularly sensitive to some of the electrical characteristics of Cat5 cable, which mean that either 6 or 3 may not be suitbale, or neither of them. I don't know enough to advise beyond that.

Thank you for clearing this up.

Is there any other sign i should be hear if my amp does not like the Cat5?

BTW the different between the QED and the CAT5 is not that much. The big noticeable different is the bass of cat5(tight and polite, no boomy stuff).

other thing i keep mention, could it be the bad recording?

Mr Incredible · 04-09-2008, 10:53 PM

If your speakers are old, they may have got "tired" in their old age. Try the set up with your 603 S3's you're trying to sell, and see if there is a difference.

conman · 04-09-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

If your speakers are old, they may have got "tired" in their old age. Try the set up with your 603 S3's you're trying to sell, and see if there is a difference.

The 804s are nearly about 2 yrs younger than their brother the 603 s3 about 1 yr odd.

If i have a chance, i will give it a try as they are all well boxed.