[darkjunky]

Hello,

Currently my media center is pumping out HD content to my HDTV in my living room. I'm now ready to make the next step in my plans and thats to extend that connection from the living to the kitchen, spare bedroom and master bedroom.

So far my plan has been to buy the following;

CAT 6 Six Port Shuttered Faceplate
CAT 6 Two Port Shuttered Faceplate x3
4 Port Pro Grade HDMI Video Splitter
Newlink HDMI Over CAT5e / CAT6 Extender 30-60m x3
Plexus Gold Plated High Speed 1.3b HDMI to HDMI Cable (Black) 1m x3
About 50-60M of Cat6 cable and a 12 port patch panel.

So the plan is to get the 3 spare feeds from the hdmi splitter into the HDMI to CAT6 extender, plug those into the wallplates then take the cat6 up the wall into the atic. Plug those into a patch panel and then run CAT6 from the patch panel down into the other walls of each of the other location with faceplates in each room.

My questions are;
-will this work?
-is this a relativity good plan?
-is there an easier/cheaper way to get my one HD feed to each room?
-will my HD fall over at the patch and faceplates?

I'm also interested to know how a computer reacts with a HDMI spitter, are you able to map each moniter as if you were duel screening?

[deadmonkey]

Originally Posted by darkjunky

I'm also interested to know how a computer reacts with a HDMI spitter, are you able to map each moniter as if you were duel screening?

What first post and your attempting one of the most complex things on here?

Well, you're nothing if not ambitious

[MarkTaylor]

I'm going to take this over to the Cat5 section of the cable forum as it will get better answers there.

For your last question though, no, your PC will not see the individual monitors connected to the splitter.

[Joe Fernand]

If you are planning on playing media from a media PC why are you looking at video/audio signal distribution?

Ideally wont you want to install a networked media player at each location and simply share the files from your hard drive over a conventional network arrangement.

Joe

[darkjunky]

Hi Joe,

Well, because it's not just videos I want to watch. My "media center" is actually a little monster of a computer.

Shuttle SG33G5G
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 LGA775 3.00GHz (1333FSB)
Kingston HyperX 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 6400C4 800MHz Dual Channel
Sapphire VAPOR-X HD4870 1GB GDDR5 HDMI DVI VGA PCI-E Graphics
Hitachi DeskStar 1TB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 16MB Cache
Sony BDU-X10S Blu-Ray BD-ROM SATA Black Internal
Compro VideoMate C100 Interface Analog Video/Audio Capture PCI Card

I currently have a logitech dinovo edge and a wireless gamepad that works anywhere in the house that I use to control the media, play games, browse the net and sometimes I do my work on it using Creative Suites (Photoshop, Dreamweaver etc). And I want to still be able to utilize all that fuctionally from any room the house that had a screen.

[Jamie S]

Computers are probably the most temperamental of things to work into HDMI distribution scenarios.

Whether your plan will work or not depends on a multitude of factors.

The displays you plan to position around you home should all have the same resolution capabilities and be HDCP compliant.

Do you currently use a surround sound set-up in your main viewing area?

Other factors are:

• The quality of the HDMI splitter or distribution amp being using.
• The quality of the UTP Cat6 cabling and how well terminated they are
• Patch panels can work, but are not designed with HDMI over Cat6 in mind so it can be very hit and miss.

Depending on how far apart the rooms are (sub 15m ideally), just using long HDMI cables can work and be easier and cheaper.

In theory, your idea could work. However, really it is a 'try it and see' situation before running anything behind walls. You may find yourself trying various models of splitter and extenders before you hit upon the right combination of products that is friendly for your particular set-up requirements.

Kind Regards
J

[Joe Fernand]

Hello darkjunky

The type/quality of the PC is pretty much irrelevant - other than how does the graphic card cope when its on a distributed network; often you need to factor in an HDMI or DVI Detective EDID grabber by Gefen to stop the PC falling asleep when its not seeing an active display.

Sending a distributed HDMI signal over twisted pair Balun is becoming relatively painless - though introducing face plates, patch panel etc makes for more possibilities of problems.

Keep in mind in your plan only one person can access the files on the main PC at any one time - multiple folk can view/hear what is going on but only one person can choose/control what is going on!

Are there other devices you would want to send over the video/audio distribution network?

Joe

[darkjunky]

Hi Jamie,

thanks for your reply! to answer your questions..

I currently have 3 HD displays and planning to buy a 3rd all with the same resolution capabilities one goes slighly higher then rest but I can live without it, HDCP compliant and all about 10m or less from each other.

Currently I don't have surround sound I simple use sound over HDMI using the in built TV speakers, but I plan on laying the ducting and wiring for surround sound at the same time I try and setup this setup.

After reading your advice and advice from Joe in a previous thread I'm considering using the brush open hole faceplates and run straight HDMI cables since there clearly seems to be a lot of room for error using the exenders, wallplates and such.. this would also leave me more flixiblity to install cat6 for internet connectivity at a later date.

I reliease that it's likely going to be a case of trail and error but I'm inclinded to norrow down my options to the most reliable and seek advise from people like yourself before just buying stuff without knowing what to expect

@JOE
At present I can cope with the fact only 1 person can control whats being viewed & I have a solution for enabiling mulitple access to the media content once I have the budget for it

I currently have a normal virgin media piped into my media center but i'm looking to buy a HD box very soon.

[Jamie S]

You will be unable to use HDMI as a connection for surround sound. For your purposes you should consider the HDMI connections as only ever carrying 1080p/60 + 2.0ch stereo.

For surround sound you will require a separate audio cable direct from your computer's sound card, most likely optical.

I would suggest using something like a 4x4 Matrix switcher. This will enable you to expand and add HD source devices in the future - like a V+ box.

The matrix switching functionality will also allow you to have any source shown on any display. (i.e. PC in the Kitchen & V+ in the living room)

Infinius 4x4 HDMI Switcher

A purely HDMI cable connected system will be more reliable and cheaper than other options.

[Joe Fernand]

Hello darkjunky

Ensure you cover everything you will want to do in your planning now so you don't need an expensive revisit to the wiring/switching in the future.

Clear cable ways or over sized conduit is always a good option where you have relatively short/straight cable runs.

HDMI can carry video + stereo or multi channel audio - though piping multi channel audio to stereo only TV's is a problem; though its not insurmountable

HDMI over twisted pair cables is pretty stable - its when you start to introduce lots of breaks/joins in the twisted pair cable paths that you start to run into problems.

In-room media players are a good option if most of your content is digitised.

With multi channel audio are you planning on having an amp + Spks in each room and simply splitting/distributing the multi channel signal?

Joe

[Nded]

Hello darkjunky,

You could do this (extend your HD source with mulit-channel audio to any number of rooms/displays) over a standard 100BT Ethernet TCP/IP LAN. Do a google on "hdmi and IR over IP". This would also let you use an IR remote in any location to send control signals back to the head end.

Ed

[Jamie S]

Can you link to the specific product that does this please?

I'm not so sure HDMI over IP is possible TBH.

[Nded]

Originally Posted by Jamie S

Can you link to the specific product that does this please?

I'm not so sure HDMI over IP is possible TBH.

I can assure that HDMI over IP is very possible. This is very new stuff, so I can understand why you aren't yet aware of it. While I would like to link to the specific product, the AVFORUMS moderators have made it clear that new forum participants (especially manufacturers) who post links to their own products/websites will see their posts deleted quite quickly. I will try to send you a link in a PM. Here are some highlights about what HDMI over IP can do:

• Distributes a single HDMI source to up to 200 target display device on an Ethernet LAN using cascaded 100BT LAN switches.
• Supports practically any resolution input video from 16x16 pixels to 2048x2048 pixels. This includes 1080p at 24fps and 60fps (85fps is the fastest device I have seen tested)
• The HDMI output is automatically scaled to the preferred resolution of each of the attached screens (i.e. a 1080p source can be sent to multiple screens that may or may not support 1080p, and the output will be adjusted to match that screens best possible resolution without impacting the output on other screens on the LAN).
• Multi-channel audio also is also distributed at the same time in the IP packet stream (Dolby 5.1 not the optional lossless tracks in a Blu-Ray).
• An IR return function lets you send an IR remote control signal back to the source HDMI device from any screen on the network.
• The system is HDCP compliant (i.e. if some of the screens on your LAN are not HDCP compliant, they will show a black screen when the HDMI source turns on the HDCP flag, while the HDCP compliant screens will be able to show the protected broadcast).

This is not an HDMI Balun, but an HDMI over IP system. This means you can create your own A/V Ethernet network and all of the recievers will find the transmitter automatically. It may even be used over smaller existing house networks and low cost 100BT LAN switches and routers. While HDMI Baluns have all sorts of problems with distance (CAT5 skew, dropped frames, or very restricted cable lengths), HDMI over IP can easily support devices 300M apart on a standard cascaded Ethernet LAN (further distances are possible if you use fiber instead of copper to bridge your LAN).

[Frank P]

Originally Posted by Nded

I can assure that HDMI over IP is very possible. This is very new stuff, so I can understand why you aren't yet aware of it. While I would like to link to the specific product, the AVFORUMS moderators have made it clear that new forum participants (especially manufacturers) who post links to their own products/websites will see their posts deleted quite quickly. I will try to send you a link in a PM. Here are some highlights about what HDMI over IP can do:

• The system is HDCP compliant (i.e. if some of the screens on your LAN are not HDCP compliant, they will show a black screen when the HDMI source turns on the HDCP flag, while the HDCP compliant screens will be able to show the protected broadcast).

Nded,
Can you please send me information. Just what the doctor ordered.

[mbbx0bbr]

Hi.

Just what is the cost of installing HDMI over IP?

[Nded]

Originally Posted by mbbx0bbr

Hi.

Just what is the cost of installing HDMI over IP?

The system is totally scalable, so the cost is directly proportional to the number of sources and the number of screens. This has the added benefit of allowing you to expand your system in the future as you acquire more HDMI sources and HD TV's. You also will need to determine if the location already has a managed Ethernet switch. Assuming you are starting from scratch, here are the prices in USD (contact our UK distributor www.hdcable.co.uk for GBP).

$300-500 One Managed Switch from Cisco, Netgear, or equivalent (requires VLAN/IGMP support)
$250 per HDMI screen for the VBS-HDMI-108A Receiver
$299 per HDMI input for the VBS-HDMI-308A Transmitter
$??? CAT5/6 cable to connect things together.

Depending on which managed switch you purchase, you may or may not find the basic HTTP interface to be Family Friendly. If you choose a managed switch with RS232 control, the sky is pretty much the limit on how friendly (and expensive) you want the system to be. You could use Crestron, AMX, Control4, and just about any other whole home automation system to control the HDMI over IP Right Sized Matrix. The folks at HD Cable (an AVForums assured advertiser) will have some Family Friendly examples in house later this month. You can contact member Jamie S (http://www.avforums.com/forums/members/319784.html) if you want a detailed price quote.

[bentley-farm]

Hi nded

Stumbled across this thread and what you have introduced is just what I'm going to be looking for.

Just wanting to confirm that the wiring setup I am about to put in is compatible with this system.

I'm planning on having 4 x cat 5e connections in each room via faceplates wired back to a central switch (then into the router) - I'm presuming this would work fine with this product or have I missed something?

Thanks
Rob

[Owen824]

have a look at AVATrix. i used it in the houses we just built. distributes a single source to 6 rooms. if you want to distribute multiple sources to to multiple rooms, that is also available. very easy system to install. all done over cat 5 from the main box to very nice looking stainless steel wall plates.

[Jamie S]

Actually bentley-farm yes you have understood correctly, the HDMI over IP solution will work with your ethernet switch.

DarkJunky - nded is suggesting the HDMI over IP solution not a HDMI over Cat5 Solution.

[bentley-farm]

I'll get the wiring sorted then!

[bentley-farm]

Jamie S / Nded

The HDMI over IP solution you have mentioned says it acts as IR repeater, allowing control of devices, in my case SKY HD.

Do you know if there is any way to get it to work with 2 SKY HD boxes - I am meaning purely from a remote control point of view - I am hoping to have 2 HD boxes available to each tv in the house, but I don't want both boxes to change Sky channel when the remote is pressed. And I can't think of how this can be avoided? Even if I need to buy special remotes I am willing to do so.

Apologies if this isn't your areas of expertise, just struggling to find much info on this technology with it being new.

Thanks
Rob

[Nded]

Originally Posted by bentley-farm

Jamie S / Nded

The HDMI over IP solution you have mentioned says it acts as IR repeater, allowing control of devices, in my case SKY HD.

Do you know if there is any way to get it to work with 2 SKY HD boxes - I am meaning purely from a remote control point of view - I am hoping to have 2 HD boxes available to each tv in the house, but I don't want both boxes to change Sky channel when the remote is pressed. And I can't think of how this can be avoided? Even if I need to buy special remotes I am willing to do so.

Apologies if this isn't your areas of expertise, just struggling to find much info on this technology with it being new.

Thanks
Rob

The HDMI over IP return IR function will only send the control signal to the source you are currently watching. In other words, if you are watching SKY box #1 and send an IR command, it will not hit SKY box #2. I will defer to Jamie for an opinion as to how well the SKY Remote actually works with the system, as the IR return function is not full spectrum. Some IR devices work great with it, others do not.

[Jamie S]

I concur with Nded.

There is no need to buy special remotes, with HDMI over IP you can use just one Sky remote to control both boxes.

You just have to tape the IR emitter over the top of the Sky box's IR receiver to ensure both boxes don't see the IR signal being emitted. Simples.

Essentially on your chosen control interface you would select either Sky box 'A' or Sky box 'B' and then channel hop to your heart's content.

[bentley-farm]

Hi Jamie
Do you know if there are any plans to release any sort of control module for the HDMI over IP?

I am about to finalise the details of our installation, and whilst this solution would work well with just a single input into the system, there would obviously need to be a way to flip the receiver between 2 or more inputs. Im am presuming solutions are available for Crestron etc, but personally for me, (and I'm sure others as well) it would be really useful if there were sort out remote control switching option.

I know this technology is still really new, so hopefully this can be incorporated in a future revision.

In the meantime, I've noticed on the hdcable website, that is only needs a managed switch for multiple inputs, and unmanaged is better for single channel.

All of this managed/unmanaged confuses me though, what is the cheapest unmanaged switch I could get away with for a single input setup?

Thanks
Rob

[Joe Fernand]

Hello bentley-farm

If your putting together a new system and can pull the required cables I don't see why you would choose the HDMI over IP option!

There is no need to run into image quality loss at your multiple output points when you have the ability to run a wiring configuration that would avoid having to run your signals over an IP solution.

As soon as you start to integrate Control with video and audio switching/distribution your into a whole new ball game in terms of complexity and Tech support for the switch manufacturer.

You can 'layer' up pretty much any control system/strategy with your preferred video and audio switching/distribution plan.

Joe

[bentley-farm]

What solution would you suggest Joe?

Trying to keep the costs down whilst still future proofing, and thought the HDMI over IP solution was pretty good value.

Thanks

[Joe Fernand]

What's the brief - how many Inputs, Outputs etc.

Joe

[bentley-farm]

Hi Joe

I am wanting to be able to have 2 SKY HD's as inputs, and initially around 7 outputs, with the facility to add up to 16 outputs in the future.

I want to be able to control either box from each TV (without changing box boxes at once when remote is pressed).

I am also wanting to plan for a digital media player output at each TV, but from what I've seen a simple route is just to have individual players where needed, cat wired back to hub. Although with the HDMI over IP option I would theoretically be able to have 1 digital media player connected as a transmitter, which would be accessible at all outputs. (albeit all outputs would see same content).

Audio (ie MP3) isnt an issue as I am installing Sonos on a seperate system to handle that.

Thanks Joe

[Joe Fernand]

You may run into HDCP issues with SKY HD if you go for the 7 + 16 option - SKY HD has an inbuilt Achilles heel and only stores enough HDCP 'keys' for up to 16 connected devices!

Every HDMI Switch, DA or Extender requires a Key in a connected system; you don't just count the number of Display devices!!!

23 handsets having a bun fight to control two SKY HD box's may make for a fun time - in such a large distributed system most installs will end up with a mix of 'with Source control' and 'without Source control' Display points.

Multiple networked media players is again a much better architecture vs. a single player being Distributed to lots of Displays.

The only down side of the Central Source to multiple Displays + multiple Sonos Zone Players is the potential for audio and video being out of sync due to processing delays/differences between Sonos and the Video signals.

With the above in mind you may want to look at what Zektor have on option and in the pipeline - the Prowler 8x8 over CAT6 Matrix will be available in an HDMI version early next year.

The Zektor Prowler has the ability to individually delay the Analogue/Digital audio on each output - you also have level, tone and balance controls.

With local and CAT6 outputs on each channel you could use a DA on some Outputs to attain your larger distributed system with no requirement to loose image or audio quality on any output.

Zektor

Drop me a PM if you want more info/ideas.

Joe

[bentley-farm]

Hi Joe

Thanks for the information

In terms of outputs, what I meant to put was that I will initially be using about 7, but potentially upto 16, as opposed to potentially 23. Just read what I wrote back and can see why you thought 23.

Ill have a look over that matrix and see how those look.

Thanks
Rob