[derekc]

I've been looking at this model for my first venture into HD camcorders, my present camera being a Canon XM1. I have seen reports of problems with (all) harddrive cameras when high vibration/loud noise and high altitude cause them not to record. I don't think that the altitude problem will affect me, but my sons have been known to record at airshows.
My main usage woud be more mundane, such as wildlife and scenery. How much of an issue is this?
Also, a 'review' of the particular model XR520VE quoted 'this model's consumer-format anemic AVCHD compresses the video too much'. All I'm after is an HD model that will deliver a first rate picture and audio, and I quite like the idea of the built in drive.
I realise that I'm asking two questions here, one on the recording format and one on a specific model.

Please help

Derekc

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by derekc

I've been looking at this model for my first venture into HD camcorders, my present camera being a Canon XM1. I have seen reports of problems with (all) harddrive cameras when high vibration/loud noise and high altitude cause them not to record. I don't think that the altitude problem will affect me, but my sons have been known to record at airshows.
My main usage woud be more mundane, such as wildlife and scenery. How much of an issue is this?
Also, a 'review' of the particular model XR520VE quoted 'this model's consumer-format anemic AVCHD compresses the video too much'. All I'm after is an HD model that will deliver a first rate picture and audio, and I quite like the idea of the built in drive.
I realise that I'm asking two questions here, one on the recording format and one on a specific model.

Please help

Derekc

the review must have been tosh the xr520v is an update on my cam an sr 12 and the pictures are great,in a recent test against my fx-7 prosumer hdv cam the sr 12 showed more resolution better overall colour, the only point i would edge it for the fx-7 is skin tones.there was noticably more noise in the hdv picture as well.
the cams were played via 2 different hdmi inputs one clip at a time to compare.

[derekc]

Thanks for swift reply.

I'm assuming you've had no problems with Hard Disc Drive.

Derekc

[senu]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

the review must have been tosh the xr520v is an update on my cam an sr 12 and the pictures are great,in a recent test against my fx-7 prosumer hdv cam the sr 12 showed more resolution better overall colour, the only point i would edge it for the fx-7 is skin tones.there was noticably more noise in the hdv picture as well.
the cams were played via 2 different hdmi inputs one clip at a time to compare.

Chris I think you are in love with your SR12.... The FX7 was 5 star rated back in the day.. I guess 21/2- 3 years is very lng in the life of camcorder technology though

Owning both as you do, I guess your comparisons are valid although the Bionz Processing ( which is great with low light noise) and exmor sensor Technology do give the SR12 a boost and advantage as even at launch it was better than the HC9 at that. The FX7 doesnt have this newer technology
However
There are 2 issues; The media to which video is recorded
The format ( video type) which is recorded

To answer the OP directly HDD recording is fine

However some ( albeit a few) camcorders record mpeg2 ( HDV) to HDD
Otherwise HDV is generally tape

AVCHD is usually the format of choice for SD card or HDD Hi def recording
As such a comparison of say an HC 10 which has the same lens , sensor and Bionz processing but records HDV to tape vs the SR 12 would be far more enlightening
Also given that HDV is 1440 x 1080 vs AVCHDs 1920 x 1080 , the "resolution" difference of FX7 vs SR12 is already predetermined
Does this mean the perceived definition is better? I dont know and frankly dont think so
I have seen fantastic mpeg2 , VC1 and obviously AVC encoded Blu ray footage

Lastly, given how Canon Sony and Panasonic are committed to developing AVCHD camcorder technology: there is no sign this is getting to prosumer let alone Pro levels
Certainly even at that level , tapeless ( Solid State, HDD ) although maily proprietary ( ie no industry standard) are being promoted ( I missed this years Video forum ( finishing today) to see all the new goodies), only Panasonic is using a more

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by derekc

a 'review' of the particular model XR520VE quoted 'this model's consumer-format anemic AVCHD compresses the video too much'.

A link to this review would be useful.

I'm with Chris on the quality issue, AVCHD vs. HDV. Of course, it depends on which AVCHD camcorder you compare with which HDV camcorder, since not all camcorders using a given format are created equal, but given that the horizontal resolution difference is barely noticeable if at all (vertical res, in both instance 1080, has a greater effect on perceived sharpness), and both use the same 4:2:0 chroma subsampling (which is what limits these formats to consumer or "prosumer" use - sharpness issues especially in the way red is handled), there's no way you can argue that all HDV is better than all AVCHD.

Not that anyone is arguing that in this thread, and not that this is what the OP was asking about, but I just wanted to put it out there.

[derekc]

Thanks for replies.

It wasn't really a review as such:

Sony HDR-XR520VE Camcorder Opinions? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers

Can I assume that

'To answer the OP directly HDD recording is fine'

means that my original worry of HDD locking up isn't an issue?

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by senu

Chris I think you are in love with your SR12.... The FX7 was 5 star rated back in the day.. I guess 21/2- 3 years is very lng in the life of camcorder technology though

Owning both as you do, I guess your comparisons are valid although the Bionz Processing ( which is great with low light noise) and exmor sensor Technology do give the SR12 a boost and advantage as even at launch it was better than the HC9 at that. The FX7 doesnt have this newer technology
However
There are 2 issues; The media to which video is recorded
The format ( video type) which is recorded

To answer the OP directly HDD recording is fine

However some ( albeit a few) camcorders record mpeg2 ( HDV) to HDD
Otherwise HDV is generally tape

AVCHD is usually the format of choice for SD card or HDD Hi def recording
As such a comparison of say an HC 10 which has the same lens , sensor and Bionz processing but records HDV to tape vs the SR 12 would be far more enlightening
Also given that HDV is 1440 x 1080 vs AVCHDs 1920 x 1080 , the "resolution" difference of FX7 vs SR12 is already predetermined
Does this mean the perceived definition is better? I dont know and frankly dont think so
I have seen fantastic mpeg2 , VC1 and obviously AVC encoded Blu ray footage

Lastly, given how Canon Sony and Panasonic are committed to developing AVCHD camcorder technology: there is no sign this is getting to prosumer let alone Pro levels
Certainly even at that level , tapeless ( Solid State, HDD ) although maily proprietary ( ie no industry standard) are being promoted ( I missed this years Video forum ( finishing today) to see all the new goodies), only Panasonic is using a more

you need a good 1920p tv to realy notice,i have never bothered before with my downstairs pioneer doing a test[could not be bothered to pull it out and dismantle the hdmis]but now i have a bedroom 32" panasonic viera 1920 tv it is easy to connect 2 cams to separate hdmis, i would in some ways still like a hdv cam that gives the extra sharpness and complete lack of noise the sr 12 does but i cant see it happening,also i must say converting sr 12 footage to hdv puts a little noise back on the pq,an avchd disc with the same footage from both cams does still show some difference in the sr 12s favour but to a little less degree.so the pc prosess using pinnacle has a small degradation whether blu ray would could be interesting.

[senu]

Originally Posted by A n d r e w

A link to this review would be useful.

I'm with Chris on the quality issue, AVCHD vs. HDV. Of course, it depends on which AVCHD camcorder you compare with which HDV camcorder, since not all camcorders using a given format are created equal, but given that the horizontal resolution difference is barely noticeable if at all (vertical res, in both instance 1080, has a greater effect on perceived sharpness), and both use the same 4:2:0 chroma subsampling (which is what limits these formats to consumer or "prosumer" use - sharpness issues especially in the way red is handled), there's no way you can argue that all HDV is better than all AVCHD.

Not that anyone is arguing that in this thread, and not that this is what the OP was asking about, but I just wanted to put it out there.

Having used some decent AVCHD camcorders , I agree
What I was saying is that AVCHD vs HDV is camcorder specific so it not so much my POV vs Chris ( or yours) . I just feel too that when a review says a consumer AVCHD camcorder is better than a HDV Prosumer model the inference is that as formats go, using like for like camcorders ( or even a "lower" spec AVCHD as in this example) , the AVCHD will always do better
I havent found that to be the case in practice and I have used both types although I own the tape models

As Sony has cleverly not made any "like for like" models, yet.. we await one with abated breath

I make the point too that for the OPs sake, we separate the HDD/Tape issue from that of file format the video was recorded to

HDD is fine.. There are higher end Camcorders which record neither consumer AVCHD nor HDV bitrate mpeg2 ( EX1 ect record higher) which record to HDD ( optional extra)

[chrishull3]

in case it was not clear my tests were done outdoors on a bright but generaly overcast day,shots incuded wide country views,lake and reedbed and some town ones.