Best HD Camcorder available now?

[madeinstein]

Hi,

I need to buy HD camcorder before March. I've got Sony PC110 MiniDV (SD) currently which is quite old now and I was wordering what's the best money can buy these days. Budget is flexible as long as it's not too big.

I read a few articles about MiniDV vs HDD and people say that MiniDV is better as it's not compressed - any comments?

Sony seems to go HDD route as they've recenlty annouced a bunch of HDD camcorders but nothing on the DV side. Does that mean that DV is dying slowly?

I'm not really bothered about editing/PC conversion as from my past experience I know I will never have enough time to do it. The only thing I want to make sure that it will last for a long time.

Any help appreciated. Cheers.

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by madeinstein

I read a few articles about MiniDV vs HDD and people say that MiniDV is better as it's not compressed - any comments?

It's got to the stage now where it's not practical to generalise. Some camcorders which record AVCHD format video to hard drive or memory cards deliver picture quality on par with camcorders which record HDV format video on to mini-DV tapes. Some don't. It's a matter of comparing individual models.

Sony seems to go HDD route as they've recenlty annouced a bunch of HDD camcorders but nothing on the DV side. Does that mean that DV is dying slowly?

At the consumer level, probably. However, Canon's new line-up includes an updated version of their HDV-format HV30, the new HV40, though it's not exactly a radical reincarnation. Mini-DV still lives - for how long is anyone's guess. HDV is still a strong contender among prosumer camcorders, though - so it's not like mini-DV cassettes are about to disappear.

[senu]

Long and informative post Andrew

Short version: There is no "best"

What is true is that at least in consumer camcorder land, MiniDv is getting less marketing attention

A case in point is Sony last offering where the HC9 was not given the " star treatment of the Sr 11 or 12. Where the Bionz image processing and newer Clear vid CMOS sensor with " Exmor" technology were passed over in the HC 9

Similarly in Canon land Im not sure just how much better the HV40 is over the HV20 let alone HV30
Both being decent camcorders
MinDv lives on because of its wide existing user base, Its use in High end prosumer camcorders and Budget Pro camcorders
Quality is not the issue

[alpine101]

I have to say I do not understand why people buy HDD cameras when there are SD card ones which remove all delicate mechanics, except for the zoom motor, from the camcorder and give you unlimited media capacity.

[senu]

Originally Posted by alpine101

I have to say I do not understand why people buy HDD cameras when there are SD card ones which remove all delicate mechanics, except for the zoom motor, from the camcorder and give you unlimited media capacity.

3 possible reasons

• The brands themselves are not quite pushing SD card models as the " future" just as an alternative. They need to recover thier R and D costs from developing HDD models
• SD cards used to be much more expensive, Despite being very " cheap" now" they are still costly are compared to HDD per Gb
• SD card capacites are still " small " compared to HDD.

Whle brands are marketing Camcorders with even bigger HDD drives and pushing that as a plus, a 16Gb card seem small compared
Although cards are small enough to be swaped round , the thought that you could fill one up mid shoot does not appeal to some

[alpine101]

Originally Posted by senu

Although cards are small enough to be swaped round , the thought that you could fill one up mid shoot does not appeal to some

32GB?! That's 3 hours even at the Canon 24Mbps overkill rate! And twice as much on more sensible rates that aren't just there for marketing purposes. What do you shoot, Senu?!!

[senu]

Originally Posted by alpine101

32GB?! That's 3 hours even at the Canon 24Mbps overkill rate! And twice as much on more sensible rates that aren't just there for marketing purposes. What do you shoot, Senu?!!

I was just playing devils advocate and trying to explain why the Brands still make as many HDD as Sd card models given your stated advantages of SD card camcorders ( in addition to better battery life)

I did use Sony XDCAM model ( the EX1) for a short time and was very impressed with it so I know there is more to life than tape
Ok .. back to reality..
Im still in the past and still use tape but when I get a non tape camcorder it wont be HDD so Im with you on the benefits of Solid state as being the future
Just that the HDD ones will hang around for a while as the manufacturer's still have a lot of investment in them

[alpine101]

Originally Posted by senu

Im still in the past and still use tape

I'm even more in the past on occasion. I have been known to get out my Beaulieu Super 8 camera, buy for £15 or so one spool of film (silent of course, no 5.1 there...) which has a 5 minute playtime, needs lights for indoor shooting and has a 'one time only' record capability, and shoot that, just to remind myself how to be disciplined and not to waste filming time

Looks like this, except I modded mine for an external battery box:
http://www.sendeancameras.co.uk/send...lieu4008zm.htm

[glesgaguyav]

Can you still get Super 8 film processed/developed ? I have an old reel of film that needs developed (cassette type) but thought that there was nowhere to get it processed these days.

[alpine101]

Originally Posted by glesgaguyav

Can you still get Super 8 film processed/developed ? I have an old reel of film that needs developed (cassette type) but thought that there was nowhere to get it processed these days.

They can certainly do Ektachrome, not sure about Kodachrome. That site I linked to has info on Super 8 stock and processing. It doesn't mention Kodachrome any more, but you could contact them.

[A n d r e w]

Looks like it's time for one of these:

[alpine101]

Originally Posted by A n d r e w

Looks like it's time for one of these:

Spoilsport.

[pandemic]

Can't comment on the best as I haven't tried enough. But I do believe you can't go wrong with the Canon HG20 come with a 60gb hard drive, but can also use sd/sdhc cards to record on. Has brilliant video quality and is FullHD. Check out some reviews first maybe try it in a store

[madeinstein]

Thanks guys for your replies. I'm going to popup to Sony shop around the corver to see the difference between DV/HDD,SD today.

Do you know FullHD compression details for Sony/Canon HDD/SD camcorders? In FullHD quality how much space 1h of movie takes? Is it similiar to BlueRay quality or more like DivX HD? In my old SD camcorder 1h ~ 10GB in DV quality I wonder how it compares to FullHD.

I'm with you on the HDD. I think going forward Solid State HDD is the future. I'm really surprised that Camcorders didn't start using it yet as some laptops already have it as option.

[mmace]

here's what made me move from HDV to AVCHD if it helps (probably doesn't)
AVCHD (on mine) = 1920x1080
HDV = 1440x1080

AVCHD (on mine) = Dolby Digital 5.1 (from 3 microphones)
HDV = stereo

AVCHD = drag and drop on to PC
HDV = play back tape in real time, because of this I ended up not editing stuff for up to a year at a time!)

AVCHD at a decent bitrate these days is just as good as HDV (both are compressed despite what you've been told), the audio swung it for me as I've wanted surround sound in my home videos for quite some time now!