Hi
I have just rushed out and spent some cash on a Hitachi MV380 DVD camcorder. Reviews everywhere rave about this machine but I am very concerned I may have just bought technology that is likely to remain incompatible for some time or worse, forever.
I immediately found that discs were hard to buy. I had to order them on line. I could not find them on the High Street. I have also found that my home DVD player has a disliking for DVD-r discs.
Having not yet managed to purchase any DVD RAM discs I have not seen the camera at its full potential.
If I need to play back DVDs through the camera and presumably will not be able to distribute family footage to the grandparents either I am tempted to return the camera and opt for a comparably priced miniDV model.
Is this a situation which anyone thinks may improve or should I bail out now?
Henry

[TommyVecetti]

To be honest, bail and exchange for a mini-dv model. the beauty of mini DV is that it's a format you can put onto anything, Video, DVD, VCD.

I don't think DVD camcorders are the next step.

I wouldnt be too worried, do you really need to buy the discs on the high st at inflated prices? so long as you can stock up with them from online sellers. As for being out of date even Cine film is still being sold!

Plenty of DVD players work with -R, and with DVD players available for around £50 (or £38 at Argos) it would be worth getting your family to update to save the hassle of copying everything to and from tape and or the PC, not to mention they can enjoy the better quality as well.
At worse you can just get a DVD burner for the PC that reads all current discs and copy your discs in 10 minutes and then post cheaply to the family.

[sonofmoth]

and doesn't Sony have 2 DVD-R camcorders coming in September?
That should increase the availability of disks ?

[TommyVecetti]

Just a personal preference but I'd avoid DVD camcorders like the plague.

Originally posted by TommyVecetti
To be honest, bail and exchange for a mini-dv model. the beauty of mini DV is that it's a format you can put onto anything, Video, DVD, VCD.

I don't think DVD camcorders are the next step.

you can put any format on to anything, surely a DVD from a camera is quicker to copy? it seems most people are wanting to have home video footage stored on hard disk or DVD-R, so a DVD-R camera cant be a bad choice, its not practical for granny to own a Mini DV player to receive tapes in the post, DVD players are available for under £50, I personally I dont see why DVD-R cameras shouldnt be mainstream, who knows though.

Originally posted by sonofmoth
and doesn't Sony have 2 DVD-R camcorders coming in September?
That should increase the availability of disks ?

Actually I think Sony have gone with DVD +RW which can only muddy the water. I think they may have made the right choice. +RW has many advantages like not needing to be finalised and being rewritable- no need to juggle RAM and -R discs. Unfortunately there will then be a requirement for DVD +RW -R and DVD RAM 8cm discs for camcorders which sounds like a format war brewing. That in itself is one of those things. What is a shame is that manufactureres are able to buy rave reviews from trusted magazines that should really be trustworthy enough to warn their readership of the pitfalls of their considerable outlay.
What else are they there for afterall. Is that not why we spend our £3.50 in WHSmiths before visiting Dixons?

[TommyVecetti]

Originally posted by Erpland
you can put any format on to anything, surely a DVD from a camera is quicker to copy? it seems most people are wanting to have home video footage stored on hard disk or DVD-R, so a DVD-R camera cant be a bad choice, its not practical for granny to own a Mini DV player to receive tapes in the post, DVD players are available for under £50, I personally I dont see why DVD-R cameras shouldnt be mainstream, who knows though.

In the simple sense you are right, but if you want to do any kind of decent editing after recording your footage it is a bad idea, since your footage has already been compressed to Mpeg 2, which is a lossy format once you start to play around with it.

In my view it's better to record in dv and then edit on your HD, then burn to DVD, you also have the bonus of storing your finished cut on mini dv as well.

[Hambone]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TommyVecetti
[B]In the simple sense you are right, but if you want to do any kind of decent editing after recording your footage it is a bad idea, since your footage has already been compressed to Mpeg 2, which is a lossy format once you start to play around with it.

Reviews of the new DVDCAM'S say that the quality is as good if not better than DV and playing around should not make any difference unless you as going from DV to Mpep2 and back to DV as i have yet to see a computer that is DV compatable.

[Hambone]

Henry I think you will find you have made a good buy.
The only advantage I can see with DV is tape length.
If you can't pause what your are taping for a minute to change disc go for DV.
If you want to spend all night rendering your footage go for DV.
If as you say you recorded it straight to DVD-R to don't even have to transfer it via USB you just stick it in your dvd drive and transfer it like any other file and edit away.
You can't tape over footage buy mistake, you don't have big blank spots between clips( I have had two sony video8 camcorders and it does happen no matter how careful you are).
The thumbnails are a huge advantage when searching footage.
Yes it is hard getting blank media local,I now buy online and found blankshop.com one of the best(the guy is very helpful if you speak to him).
You will find most people with DV cams will bung the footage on VHS because the don't what to do with it as your granny or aunty only has VHS.
Tape format wars in the early 80's(I had a betamax)
quality wise
No1 Philips Video 2000 system(my uncle had one),no noise bars on rewind,flip over tapes.(for younger members when rewinding to view on VHS the noise bars covered most of the screen)
No2 Betamax(sony)
No3 VHS(jvc)Utter crap at the time but won the format wars.
Format wise for CAM'S I don't think makes any difference as you keep the original copy and transfer for other people.
So for Joe public is come down to ease of use.
Old Tape or
instant access DVD.
I have had old tape for years and you can stick it.
It sticks it jams it wears and it snaps(and you have to rewind it)
DVDCAM

Originally posted by TommyVecetti
In the simple sense you are right, but if you want to do any kind of decent editing after recording your footage it is a bad idea, since your footage has already been compressed to Mpeg 2, which is a lossy format once you start to play around with it.

In my view it's better to record in dv and then edit on your HD, then burn to DVD, you also have the bonus of storing your finished cut on mini dv as well.

I agree with that bit, thats why I bought a mini DV cam myself (TRV22) because I fancy spending some time editing and will get a DVD writer, but I sort of got the impression henrydavey wasnt into editing on the PC, but Im probably wrong, anyway I certainly wouldnt avoid one, and if I had one now my family abroad would be seeing footage of the kids a lot sooner.

[MarkE19]

Originally posted by Hambone
Reviews of the new DVDCAM'S say that the quality is as good if not better than DV and playing around should not make any difference unless you as going from DV to Mpep2 and back to DV as i have yet to see a computer that is DV compatable.

The quality on playback may apear better, but this could be down to the connection format. A DVD player can be connected to a TV via high quality connections such as component or RGB, but a DV cam can only be connected to the TV via S-Video or composite. Therefor the quality will apear to be lower, but the quality on the tape should at least be equal, if not better. The DV format is computer compatable. DV format is stored as AVI on a PC, with no rendering etc.

surely a DVD from a camera is quicker to copy?

Yes, if useing DVD-R, but if useing RAM then NO. DVD-RAM can not be played on DVD players and is only compatable with som DVD recorders, so playback onto PC can only (in most cases) be via the camcorder.

As the likes of Dixons etc start to sell these DVD cams then the disks will become more available. I remember seeing DV tape at £15+ each in Dixons when I first got my cam. They are now around £5 each. The same will happen with the 8cm DVD-R disks.
DVD or DV is really down to the use you get from the cam. Personally I will stick to DV as I find 30minutes recording at best quality on a DVD-R is not enough. Also I edit on the PC and as has been said this is not best done from DVD as the editing programmes are native to DV (AVI) format, and MPEG-2 is a lossy format.

Mark.

[MartinImber]

Quality

Actually for picture quality Beta was ahead of V2000

Tapes Best to worse, ignoring MPEG based formats and pro formats
(Pro jobs here eg Betacam)
DV, ED-Beta
Hi8
S-Vhs, S-Beta
(U-Matic would be here)
VCR
Beta
V8
V2000
Vhs
CVC

Some (CVC) were total flops, some (ED-Beta) never made full UK production

[sonofmoth]

Originally posted by henrydavey
Actually I think Sony have gone with DVD +RW which can only muddy the water. I think they may have made the right choice. +RW has many advantages like not needing to be finalised and being rewritable- no need to juggle RAM and -R discs. Unfortunately there will then be a requirement for DVD +RW -R and DVD RAM 8cm discs for camcorders which sounds like a format war brewing. That in itself is one of those things. What is a shame is that manufactureres are able to buy rave reviews from trusted magazines that should really be trustworthy enough to warn their readership of the pitfalls of their considerable outlay.
What else are they there for afterall. Is that not why we spend our £3.50 in WHSmiths before visiting Dixons?

This is what I have seen as a spec for the 200 model. The models are Handycam DCR-DVD100 and DCR-DVD200.

Forthcoming Megapixel DVD Handycam

Product Features:

10x Optical, 120x precision digital zoom
Carl Zeiss Vario Sonnar lens
Record on 3” DVD-R & DVD-RW media
Playback on most DVD compatible products including PS2
Thumbnail images of video are created at the start of every recorded scene
Quick access to favourite scenes
Discs can be titles with customised descriptions
Easy editing in VR (video recording) mode
Recording times up to 60 minutes
Captures Megapixel images at 1152x864 resolution
2.5” SwivelScreen LCD
Super SteadyShot reduces camera shake USB 2.0


From what I have read there was more surprise that Sony haven't gone DVD+RW as they had been supporting the format but haven't for the camcorders. Maybe its down to the media. Philips are the brains behind +R/+RW but don't do camcorders.