[senu]

New thread to Take up from where this left
NEW : Sony HDR-TG3/TG1 - New Smallest 1080i camcorder

[simer]

Hi

This is the first time I've asked a question in this forum so apologies if I have posted to the wrong place.

I have just ordered my wife one of these TG3E camcorders for Christmas. After a lot of research I narrowed it down to this one and the Panasonic one. I plumped for this one as the £60 cashback deal brings it down to pretty much the price of the Panasonic one (that I could find) and it looks a lot prettier (to me). I only have an HD ready TV, but I couldn't see the point in purchasing an SD camera when the whole world is in the process of upgrading to HD. I tell you all this in the hope that someone will verify my decision making process as basically sound.

Anyway, the question I have is to do with connecting up to the TV. My TV has no HDMI input, just DVI. I recently purchased a Sony DAV-IS10 (DVD/ Home theatre system) and the HDMI output will not work with my TV's DVI input as it is not HDCP. Can anyone tell me if this is the case with the TG3E? I can't find any mention of it in the manual. Also, how does one connect using component? It seems to have just a single connector on the camera/ station. Is there a convertor cable? I does mention in the manual that this connector will support SD only.

Please excuse me if these are stupid questions; I've never owned a camcorder before.

[glesgaguyav]

Originally Posted by simer

Hi

This is the first time I've asked a question in this forum so apologies if I have posted to the wrong place.

I have just ordered my wife one of these TG3E camcorders for Christmas. After a lot of research I narrowed it down to this one and the Panasonic one. I plumped for this one as the £60 cashback deal brings it down to pretty much the price of the Panasonic one (that I could find) and it looks a lot prettier (to me). I only have an HD ready TV, but I couldn't see the point in purchasing an SD camera when the whole world is in the process of upgrading to HD. I tell you all this in the hope that someone will verify my decision making process as basically sound.

Anyway, the question I have is to do with connecting up to the TV. My TV has no HDMI input, just DVI. I recently purchased a Sony DAV-IS10 (DVD/ Home theatre system) and the HDMI output will not work with my TV's DVI input as it is not HDCP. Can anyone tell me if this is the case with the TG3E? I can't find any mention of it in the manual. Also, how does one connect using component? It seems to have just a single connector on the camera/ station. Is there a convertor cable? I does mention in the manual that this connector will support SD only.

Please excuse me if these are stupid questions; I've never owned a camcorder before.

Can't give any info regarding the DAV-IS10 when used with the TG3 but the cam will output 1080i/576i or 576i only (selectable) via component and through the cams station, the component cable is supplied with the cam, but no HDMI cable.
It should be possible to get a component to DVI if required

[simer]

Thanks for your reply. I wasn't talking about getting the camcorder to work with the DVD player. I was trying to work out whether I can use an HDMI to DVI converter cable to connect to my TV player (which the DVD player won't as the TV's DVI input is not HDCP) . Will this camcorder work with a PC monitor for instance?

The manual does say that images sent from the A/V connecting cable are output with SD quality. Is this the component cable, because I can't see any other connector?

Thanks again!

[glesgaguyav]

The HD output on the cam is a mini connector,not the standard size, if you buy a female HDMI to DVI, you would need to buy a mini HDMI to standard HDMI which Sony don't supply with the cam then there should be no reason why it shouldn't work on a TV or monitor.

[simer]

Brilliant! Thanks for the feedback. Having looked through this post I have managed to find the answer to my other question. The cables that come the camcorder seem to have Sony's connector at one end and the standard ones at the other.

Thanks again!

[pauljames]

Hi,

Two questions.

1) How do people find the zoom on this thing, I read one review (can't remember where) that said it was fiddly to do when holding the camcorder - is that true?

2) How low does the light have to be for it to qualify as "low light". Are we talking indoors at night with one 40w bulb or any indoors at night?

I quite fancy a camcorder - but as most of the shots will be indoors then I would quite like one that is reasonable in this area.

Cheers,
Paul

[davebrown88]

Originally Posted by pauljames

Hi,

Two questions.

1) How do people find the zoom on this thing, I read one review (can't remember where) that said it was fiddly to do when holding the camcorder - is that true?

2) How low does the light have to be for it to qualify as "low light". Are we talking indoors at night with one 40w bulb or any indoors at night?

I quite fancy a camcorder - but as most of the shots will be indoors then I would quite like one that is reasonable in this area.

Sorry I am no good at guessing the light of rooms, I would just use twilight mode or change ya light bulbs in ya house lol

Cheers,
Paul

1. Zoom is great mate and i find it realy easy. so no problems there.

2. I would say low light on this thing is quite poor. i have used a option called twilight thou which does work well and gets rid of the grain. I would say in doors with half decent light you will be fine.

I personally love this camcorder and its well worth the money.

I think most cameras in this price range are not so good in low light. change ya bulbs from 40w to 60w and you will be fine lol

[davebrown88]

has any one recorded in Twilight in low light and then edited the video with certain software to brighten it up ?

If so what were the after results like ?

[headinclouds]

Hi pauljames, the zoom works fine however for better control over stop/start and two speed zoom try the remote (by thin cable ) control accessory RM-VD13 £28.91 from Amazon. Its a pity they dont have a remote to help with play-back,editing and other actions rather than the touch screen feature , good that it is, but awkward for big hands!
Regards headinclouds.

[extremelydodgy]

Hi.

Quick Q regarding the TG3E. I bought one quite recently in anticipation of being able to use it as a carry-all for stills and video, and am finding the '4MP' stills to be quite horrendous. I was kind of hoping for something near the DSC-V1 of yonks back that I've still hung onto, but I mean, compared to even an N95 it looks a tad... no, extremely dodgy


How should it be? Should it actually be quite pants? Could someone else for example agree to shoot something common the same as me, crop it and post it actual size?


Thanks.

[inertia]

I've found that nabbing frames from the video to be better quality than the photo mode!!!

[muscleflex]

is that right that if you bought the camera from amazon, you can return it even tho it's been opened? and they'll give you a full refund? i can't find anything on their website that says otherwise.

[extremelydodgy]

Originally Posted by inertia

I've found that nabbing frames from the video to be better quality than the photo mode!!!

It's especially bad in indoor, artificial light - everything looks very artifactidy.

[muscleflex]

where is the cheapest place to get this cam now?
is it dixons with their xmas5 discount?

[Jonny1973]

Originally Posted by muscleflex

is that right that if you bought the camera from amazon, you can return it even tho it's been opened? and they'll give you a full refund? i can't find anything on their website that says otherwise.

Within 7 working days you can return any item bought over the internet for a full refund. It's the law. Distance Selling Act 2000.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_res...g-regulations/

[davebrown88]

think it has to be unopened thou

[muscleflex]

are you guys still happy with your sony TG3?

[stathis]

Hello everyone!
Having read all the posts I went ahead and bought the camera. Overall very excited and happy.
However I have encountered a rather significant problem which I cannot recall reading about in the forum
I recorded in HD, transferred and saved the files to my PC (quad core), converted them to mpeg2 using the supplied Sony software (PMB) and then created a normal DVD in standard definition. All these went smoothly and the DVD played nicely in the PC but failed in a number of (conventional) DVD players - to be more specific the disc loads the root directory comes up and the disc starts playing ... but at various points it gets stuck, jitters or the screen goes black (depending on the DVD player)
Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong?
All help welcome

[muscleflex]

sorry can't help - i dont have this camera yet...

another question, just been looking at amazon and they have an offer for the free bond content memory card thrown in with the cam... does anyone know what it is and whether it's worth it? out of stock and wait of 2 weeks so if anyone is to get the cam now with it, they'll have to wait 2 weeks

[extremelydodgy]

Originally Posted by muscleflex

are you guys still happy with your sony TG3?

Movies - OK. Meh. I've had semi-pro HD cameras and I wasn't expecting the world, and it's fine.
Stills - teh suck. Seriously.


I did buy it for use as a throwaround, higher-quality Flip sort of way, and in that respect I'm not wholly disappointed. But it hasn't really lived up to my expectations of it. Any tips would be appreciated though.

[davebrown88]

Something which I think is very important and would be great if some one tested ( sorry I don't have the time.) To record in low light in Twilight mode which will get rid of all the nasty grain, then use some software to brighten the picture up and report what the results are.

If decent it could help towards the really poor low light this camcorder has.

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by davebrown88

Something which I think is very important and would be great if some one tested . . . .

I do something very similar with dark footage from my SD9. There's a free plug-in for Apple Final Cut called Shadow-Highlight from an outfit called Lyric which works wonders with scenes that are high contrast, or over- or under-exposed: no doubt there are similar plug-ins for PC-based editing suites. It's not perfect though: you can adjust black levels, luminance, saturation, contrast, dynamic range, all up to a point, beyond which you start making any artifacts really obvious. Nonetheless I find myself using it quite a lot, and would say that my preference with dark scenes is to underexpose a little and then adjust in post, as this seems to give better results than exposing correctly in the camera and recording noisy pictures.

That said, there are filters that will reduce video noise, too.

Something I have noticed with the SD9 (not sure if this applies to the TG3, too), is that it is quite poor when faced with large blocks of dark colours, especially black: it can get blocky very quickly! Boosting the levels tends to magnify this unless you spend a while experiementing with filter settings in post.

Andrew.

[gULFSTREAM2000]

Originally Posted by davebrown88

Something which I think is very important and would be great if some one tested ( sorry I don't have the time.) To record in low light in Twilight mode which will get rid of all the nasty grain, then use some software to brighten the picture up and report what the results are.

If decent it could help towards the really poor low light this camcorder has.

I recently edited a video with Pinnacle St 12, brightened a scene recorded with twilight mode, and it wasnt great. ( noise, colour and resolution ! ) I've meant to post on the Pinnacle forum about the best way to brighten scenes without noise becoming an issue, but havnt yet.


One problem is that the scenes recorded in good light on this camera are so very very good, that the contrast in quality in low light is that much more noticeable ! As mentioned before, not sure any other cameras in this price band would be any better in low light though.

[muscleflex]

thanks. i wont be using this cam for stills. i got my cameras for that. just purely video!
anyone know the cheapest place for this cam?

[I_K]

After testing the HF100 I decided against that cam although the test was only done at lower setting 12Mbps due to a class 2 card I had, I thought spending £400 odd pounds for not so good quality under a 60w bulb was not good enough for me. Also due to no face detection, filming with a strong background did produce dark faces but maybe it was the settings I used.

So for around £50 less after cashback, and due to portability of the TG3 I am willing to take a slightly less quality in low light...but I was wondering if someone who has this cam can do a test at full quality under indoor lights such as 60/100w bulb as this is probably the lowest light I would use the cam.

Also has anyone used a MicroSD card with a memory stick adaptor with this cam?

Many thanks for your help.

[glesgaguyav]

Here's some quick grabs off the TG3, taken in very low light, I have taken one shot with the Twilight preset, one with everything on Auto except for Slow Shutter turned off, one with overhead light on, and one with the twilight shot put through Ulead Media Studio 11 and the Auto Exposure Filter added (no tweaks, just dropped on the clip) it should be noted that with the filter added anything with light is brightened whilsts the dark parts remain black.

Good deep blacks are required if viewing on an HD TV and if your HDTV generates good blacks then it's a sign of a good and well adjusted picture.

IMO what you should see are only the illuminated parts, blacks should be black, in the auto mode the cam does a good job of "seeing" things allbeit with the added grain, remember the room was in complete darkness except for the fairy lights.
The cam was handheld and only allowed a few seconds to focus after switch on, it should be remembered that while shooting in low light the cam should not be "panned".

Hope this helps

[muscleflex]

I've just come back from town with a brand new TG3 i got for under £400!! i'm excited! :-)
altho i stupidly posted on the wrong thread... so sorry to that OP if he gets an email with my original post

i'm gonna open it and charge it in a bit to play with it. i'll test it under indoor lighting as well for those asking. i think we have 60watt lighting in the living room..
i might follow that person who posted saying he's only gets 4gig cards as they fit in a dvd for archiving.. would make sense especially since i don't have a fast enough computer yet. (i'll get one after xmas)

[I_K]

o.k...so whose selling these for less than £400???

The grabs look interesting glesgaguyav.

I looked at the videos someone posted in the previous thread and in the shadows even in good light there was pixelation...has anyone else seen this?

[nictry]

Originally Posted by I_K

o.k...so whose selling these for less than £400???

Jessops for £396 and then another £60 cashback, just picked on up myself today, will have a play in the morning and see how good/bad it is, still have till 21st Jan to return it if pants!!!