Camcorder Dilemma - Advice Needed?

[nheather]

I've had two Camcorders before, a Canon 8mm, then a Sony Hi-8.

They each cost me around £600 at the time and I never really used either of them.

The reasons why I don't think my family used them are

1 - Too bulky and too much stuff to cart around

2 - Two much effort to turn all the excerpts on tape into something worth keeping

There is possible a 3rd reason which is that I just can't be bothered\interested to put the effort in.

So I've gone through the years of my children growing up (they are 10 and 14 now) without any video records to speak of.

I'm now revisiting the idea of a camcorder because they are tiny enough to take wherever you go and are recorded on computer media (HDD or Card).

I'm prepared to give it another go, as something I or my wife might use or indeed something we can let the children run off and use.

So my dilemma. I've spent lots in the past and I'm not convinced that the same thing won't happen again if I buy again. So I don't want to spend much.

Also I can't work out whether I'd be happy with SD or whether I must try and push into HD.

I've been looking primarily at SD models because they will end up around £200 or below (cash back schemes) and my list is

JVC GZ-MS100
JVC GZ-MG330
Panasonic SDR-H40
Sony DCR-SC35
Canon FS100

Is there anything to choose between these?

My main concern is not the resolution but the reported poor performance indoors where the light isn't perfect.

How real is this problem ?


Should I be pushing myself towards HD?

If so I would be looking at the bottom end of the market - for example

Panasonic HDC-SD9

It not that I can't afford an HD camcorder (even one further up the range) it's just that I'm haunted by the fact that I've never used my previous purchases. I also don't want something that's too precious that I don't want to yet the children use it unattended.

Also with the ones I've listed above there is quite a price difference between SD and HD (£150 versus £360).

I'd appreciate any advice you might care to share.

Cheers,

Nigel

[senu]

Originally Posted by nheather

The reasons why I don't think my family used them are

1 - Too bulky and too much stuff to cart around

Not so anymore ( as youve stated)

2 - Two much effort to turn all the excerpts on tape into something worth keeping

Despite ease of transfer now, It still takes a lot less effort , but some nonetheless to actually view and edit the footage after shooting

There is possible a 3rd reason which is that I just can't be bothered\interested to put the effort in

.
Why? YouTube is full of Videos , surely somebody out there still has some interest in shooting videos!

So I've gone through the years of my children growing up (they are 10 and 14 now) without any video records to speak of.

It isnt too late..
You can always make slide shows from stills and mix them with video recorded later

So my dilemma. I've spent lots in the past and I'm not convinced that the same thing won't happen again if I buy again. So I don't want to spend much.

Fair enough but you will lose interest fairly quickly if you dont spend enough on a camcorder to keep interested if the quality is fair to downright underwhelming. A bit of a vicious cycle really

Also I can't work out whether I'd be happy with SD or whether I must try and push into HD.

Your call. Hidef on SD Card or HDD ( AVCHD) can look very stunning ( way better than the Hi8 models of old) on an HDTV but the files give modestly specified slightly older PCs a rather hard time.

I've been looking primarily at SD models because they will end up around £200 or below (cash back schemes) and my list is

JVC GZ-MS100
JVC GZ-MG330
Panasonic SDR-H40
Sony DCR-SC35
Canon FS100

Is there anything to choose between these?

I dont think so I would be wary of giving any a recommendation , especially as I feel their lacklustre performance may put you off after initial use

My main concern is not the resolution but the reported poor performance indoors where the light isn't perfect.
How real is this problem ?

Real enough IMHO especially once the light is anything but ideal and a lot of family type videos are taken indoors

Should I be pushing myself towards HD?

If so I would be looking at the bottom end of the market - for example

Panasonic HDC-SD9

HD is fine but dont forget the need for modern PC hardware..

It not that I can't afford an HD camcorder (even one further up the range) it's just that I'm haunted by the fact that I've never used my previous purchases. I also don't want something that's too precious that I don't want to yet the children use it unattended.

A real concern but you may end up "buying cheap buying twice"

Also with the ones I've listed above there is quite a price difference between SD and HD (£150 versus £360).

I think they are a much of muchness withthe extra money going on branding , fetures you may not feel as impt but not better Quality as such

I'd appreciate any advice you might care to share.

Cheers,

Nigel

No worries
The regular use of a camcorder is sometimes dependent on how easily you get to view the footage ( PC is easiest) and as such the SD card HDD models are ideal) and Your children are of the You Tube generation but your not being bothered will not be cured by the current camcorders, .
You also need to stick with a few simple rules on how to take watch able videos: that will make them more worth watching later although prudent editing make this even more the case
You have to find the creation of a video collection an interesting pursuit ,as such a camcorder with poor to average performance, may ironically douse that interest
Unfortunately MinDv tape camcorders aat this price point will give you far more quality than your 8mm or Hi8 did and more than the SD card/ HDD models you listed but tape isn't that popular anymore and the real time transfer to PC is a put off for anyone but the more keen ( or aspiring videographer)
Hope this helps

[Naqv]

Sony TG03

Full HD, can carry in your pocket, and around £380 with cashback, nuff said.

[senu]

Originally Posted by Naqv

Sony TG03

Full HD, can carry in your pocket, and around £380 with cashback, nuff said.

Its Not quite that simple
Although he did say he could spend more ,It is £180 more than £200 ( almost double)
I also find the need to stress that although it is tiny and does Hi Def ( inexpensively at £380 TBF))
You need to factor in the need for
A decent modern PC
For viewing and editing
Software( for viewing and editing) PCs dont do native AVCHD support
And perhaps the unasked question : How do you intend to view the footage ; PC , SD DVD or PS3?
Unedited , you can simply watch on your TV off the camcorder but not after you've edited or removed it off the card

[nheather]

Thanks for the advice and ideas.

Sony TG03

Problem I have with Sony gear is being restricted to Memory Stick Pro Duo.

It's the most expensive form of Flash Memory - typically, 4GB of Pro Duo costs a similar amount as 16GB of SDHC.

Power of my PC shouldn't be a problem.

The thing I have to get my head round is whether to spend £180 on an SD or £360 on an HD (Panasonic HDC-SD9) - and my decision has to be made based largely on reviews because I haven't come across any stores that are capable of demonstrating the products.

I'm finding it difficult to get my head around because I have no idea of how they compare, having seen neither working for real.

Cheers,

Nigel

In answer to some of the other questions

1 - Editing. Nothing fancy, just cropping out the bits I want and joining them together (cutting out the rubbish). I was assuming (hoping) the software that comes with the camcorder would do this.

2 - Viewing - PC, SD DVD, streamed through XBox 360 and direct from camera onto TV (42" 720P Plasma)

[senu]

Originally Posted by nheather

Thanks for the advice and ideas.
Problem I have with Sony gear is being restricted to Memory Stick Pro Duo.
It's the most expensive form of Flash Memory - typically, 4GB of Pro Duo costs a similar amount as 16GB of SDHC

3rd party (Lexar) should be considerably cheaper.

The thing I have to get my head round is whether to spend £180 on an SD or £360 on an HD (Panasonic HDC-SD9) - and my decision has to be made based largely on reviews because I haven't come across any stores that are capable of demonstrating the products.

Not even Comet?

I'm finding it difficult to get my head around because I have no idea of how they compare, having seen neither working for real.

SD vs HD?? .. Be rest assured HD on HDTV( even a 720p 42" Plasma) is way better You might as well use what is typicaly " current" and enjoy the HD off your Plasma. Hi Def is worth the difference

1 - Editing. Nothing fancy, just cropping out the bits I want and joining them together (cutting out the rubbish). I was assuming (hoping) the software that comes with the camcorder would do this.

Not so.. They are typically.. in a word.. rubbish but YMMV

2 - Viewing - PC, SD DVD, streamed through XBox 360 and direct from camera onto TV (42" 720P Plasma)

Streaming thru Xbox 360 .. You may need to change the footage to WMV-HD ( certainly not with any supplied software) otherwise the PS3 beats the Xbox 360 as a media streamer, and player (It also plays BD discs)
Also no supplied software will suffice for creating SD DVDs well (if at all)

[nheather]

Not even Comet?

Not sure whether you are being serious or not.

Comet is actually the best place I have seen so far for Camcorders. At least they have the models laid out for public to play about with at their leisure. They are normally powered up so you can get a good feel of what the Camcorders feel like, the size, the controls etc. You can see the monitor and have some idea of what the lens, focus, stabilisation is like.

What you can't do though is see what the recording material looks like when output to a screen.

So it terms of performance they all look pretty much the same. I have know way of knowing which of the Canon, JVC, Panasonic, Sony does a better job (if any).

Also, looking on a 2.7" monitor in a Comet store, the HD cameras look pretty much the same as the SD ones.

Cheers,

Nigel

[senu]

Originally Posted by nheather

Not sure whether you are being serious or not.

Comet is actually the best place I have seen so far for Camcorders. At least they have the models laid out for public to play about with at their leisure. They are normally powered up so you can get a good feel of what the Camcorders feel like, the size, the controls etc. You can see the monitor and have some idea of what the lens, focus, stabilisation is like.

What you can't do though is see what the recording material looks like when output to a screen.

So it terms of performance they all look pretty much the same. I have know way of knowing which of the Canon, JVC, Panasonic, Sony does a better job (if any).

Also, looking on a 2.7" monitor in a Comet store, the HD cameras look pretty much the same as the SD ones.

Cheers,

Nigel

I was being tounge in cheek about Comet: they do actually have a range you can play with as you say
With regard to monitoring playback it would be difficult to do that with any store . The only way you might do it is if they all used similar cards , and you could take your card , record similar scenes and compare otherwise you would be left with reviews
but
As Id remarked in an earlier post I suspect the differences wont be huge at the level of those pocket friendly; kit ( Ive concluded this from personal use, testing them out)