[fabpab]

Hey Guys,

Right.. Heres my thoughts..

I spent ages researching a new camcorder after my old Panasonic DS29 blew up.. After all the choices i went with the Sony HC5 which ticked all my boxes..

However im finding myself more and more just recording in SD now as i am finding HD a little funny on the eye when panning.

With that, my thoughts are to sell the HC5 (if anyone wants one contact me!) and buy a nice 3CCD SD camcorder....

Do you think this is a wise option ?

and if so what 3CCD camcorder would you choose? i don’t really want to pay more than £250-£300... Its credit crunch time!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

[A n d r e w]

The Panasonic GS330 is probably the best standard definition miniDV 3CCD camera at the £300 mark (it has a good range of manual controls but they're joystick and menu driven and while it has a standard accessory shoe it has no microphone input), but the next question would surely be, is standard def video from the GS330 better (or at least as good as) standard def video from the HC5?

Anyone?

[fabpab]

Hey Thanks,

Yea i have seen this camera about.. hmm.. i would image with a 3ccd it would be better.. but i havnt tried it .. anybody?

Originally Posted by A n d r e w

The Panasonic GS330 is probably the best standard definition miniDV 3CCD camera at the £300 mark (it has a good range of manual controls but they're joystick and menu driven and while it has a standard accessory shoe it has no microphone input), but the next question would surely be, is standard def video from the GS330 better (or at least as good as) standard def video from the HC5?

Anyone?

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by fabpab

i would image with a 3ccd it would be better

Depends how you interpret "better." The HC5 has one 1/3-inch CMOS sensor, the GS330 has three 1/6-inch CCD sensors. Arguably (and it's a highly debatable assertion which I wouldn't seriously defend) the CCDs will give you better colour, since there's a sensor for each primary colour. But they're tiny sensors, and the HC5's single medium-sized sensor is going to give you better (less noisy) results in moderate to low light.

The only way to know for sure (as opposed to theoretical speculating based on the specifications) would be to run a side-by-side test: two cameras, both in standard definition, identical conditions. I have a feeling we'll be lucky to find someone who's actually done this. Perhaps you could get a GS330 on trial and perform your own test?

Andrew.

[fabpab]

Hmm yea..

ok.. in this case.. its probably not worth changing the camera.. as its not realy upgrading but shifting 1 for another.. i probably wont see a massive difference..

I guess im looking at spending more like £400 to get somthing with at least 3 x1/3 inch sensors before i actualy notice any difference.. right?

Thanks for the advice so far!

Originally Posted by A n d r e w

Depends how you interpret "better." The HC5 has one 1/3-inch CMOS sensor, the GS330 has three 1/6-inch CCD sensors. Arguably (and it's a highly debatable assertion which I wouldn't seriously defend) the CCDs will give you better colour, since there's a sensor for each primary colour. But they're tiny sensors, and the HC5's single medium-sized sensor is going to give you better (less noisy) results in moderate to low light.

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by fabpab

I guess im looking at spending more like £400 to get somthing with at least 3 x1/3 inch sensors before i actualy notice any difference.. right?

Problem here is that CMOS has taken off big time in the consumer market, with the result that there are few cameras about with 3xCCD. The Panasonic is the only standard def one I can think of that's still available new. Canon's miniDV cameras are one-chip. All of the latest generation of high def camcorders under £1000 are one-chip CMOS. So your best bet might be to see if you can find a Panasonic GS400 or GS500 (both 3x 1/4.7" CCD) second hand. You'd be lucky, though. The GS400 in particular is not only like hen's teeth, but is getting a bit long in the tooth with it!

I'd still wonder whether you'd get better pictures, though. The GS400 has an amazing set of manual features, but I'd still want to see a side-by-side test before wagering it was "better" than your HC5.

[fabpab]

haha!

ok, that was what i was looking at right at the begining.. but as you say they were few and far between.. and quite expensive.. so.. by this is CMOS better? or just newer... in time will it become as good as 3xCCD chips?

also cant remeber why i didnt choose the GS500 ... i think i had a fealing that it wasnt as good as the 400.. less controls or somthing...
that should not have put me off! dam it!

hehe

Thanks again Andrew..

Originally Posted by A n d r e w

Problem here is that CMOS has taken off big time in the consumer market, with the result that there are few cameras about with 3xCCD. The Panasonic is the only standard def one I can think of that's still available new. Canon's miniDV cameras are one-chip. All of the latest generation of high def camcorders under £1000 are one-chip CMOS. So your best bet might be to see if you can find a Panasonic GS400 or GS500 (both 3x 1/4.7" CCD) second hand. You'd be lucky, though. The GS400 in particular is not only like hen's teeth, but is getting a bit long in the tooth with it!

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by fabpab

is CMOS better? or just newer?

I think the safe response here is "cheaper." With the added bonus of being a way of providing a bigger sensor = better results in "low light."

in time will it become as good as 3xCCD chips?

Now that's an academic question because soon there'll be no comparison, with all consumer grade camcorders sporting single CMOS chips (actually, that's a lie: I just recalled that the latest Panasonic HD camcorder has three CMOS chips - tiny ones, though).

also cant remeber why i didnt choose the GS500 ... i think i had a fealing that it wasnt as good as the 400.. less controls or somthing.

Precisely. The GS500 marked the start of the slippery slope which has seen manufacturers strip consumer camcorders of "prosumer" features.

[fabpab]

GREAT!!..

I hate the way were are controlled.. my brother has a similer situation were he has found all the pro audio features stripped from Double Din Car radios without spending a forutune.. i mean over a grand! but thats for another forum!!

I think for me the best thing would be to try and find a gs500 possibly a 400... and A/B them... my HC5 is futureproof with HD tho.. so that is deffinetly somthing to concider..

Originally Posted by A n d r e w

I think the answer is "cheaper." With the added bonus of being a way of providing a bigger sensor = better results in "low light."Now that's an academic question because soon there'll be no comparison, with all consumer grade camcorders sporting single CMOS chips (actually, that's a lie: I just recalled that the latest Panasonic HD camcorder has three CMOS chips - tiny ones, though).Precisely. The GS500 marked the start of the slippery slope which has seen manufacturers strip consumer camcorders of "prosumer" features.

[A n d r e w]

Oh, I should have mentioned, features that disappeared for a while (like focus rings and microphone inputs) are making their way back, now, though perhaps less pervasively than in the past. As always, the more of the cold, hard stuff you're willing to part with, the more options you're offered.

[PhilipL]

Hi

so.. by this is CMOS better? or just newer... in time will it become as good as 3xCCD chips?

As already said cheaper, that is the only reason they are appearing. They also use an inferior shutter known as 'rolling shutter' which can give some nasty affects, just do a Google for 'rolling shutter' or see here. I've seen already one footage from a Canon HF10 on the net where the camera was tied to a bike and the vibration caused the whole picture to shimmer and shake, not good.

The 3CCDs on the Panasonic is marketing, I tried the SD9 HD and the low light performance was terrible due to the tiny sensors, and outside the colour was over saturated and our brown fence was blood red, hardly a good advert for 3CCDs. There is no need for 3 chips unless of course it works out cheaper to use 3 cheap low resolution chips than 1 decent big one! Look at the most expensive digital cameras and they all have just one chip.

Regards

Phil