[TwinCityWild]

Hi , Would appreciate it big time if someone could give me a good bit of advice on what camcorder to take to Florida .

I think it's fair to say most hi def camcorders over £400 handle day time stuff well so for me it's down to it being able to handle night time work.. disney night time parades and fireworks etc.

Have read tons of stuff on here and on the likes of camcorder info and checked out posted clips on Youtube and Vimeo and still not sure what to go with.

These are the cams i've narrowed my search down to....

SD9...good price on amazon at the moment and the cheapest but would need to buy SD cards.
HF100..Just over £500 and i would need to pay for SD cards on top.
HG 10...£475 Harddrive based.
SR 10e..£450 and like the HG10 with a harddrive.

If anyone has any other suggestions then let me know cause i'd appreciate it

I've made the effort to get out and actually handle all of the camcorders listed.. i have to say that the SD9 would be my first choice as it fitted so neatly in my hand. Unfortunately it's also not the best in low light which worries me as i'd hate to come home from holiday..go to the effort of editing the footage and not be happy with what it looks like on my 42inch panasonic plasma. 2nd to the Sd9 would be the HF100 which fitted my hand almost as snuggly unlike the HG10 and SR10e which due to having hardrives did feel a bit big.

I guess like everyone it comes down to the big thing money...is it worth paying that extra for the likes of the HF100?

Of course i would have to factor in SD cards with both the HF100 and SD9 which adds to the price. 2 weeks in florida is probably going to need a fair bit of space SD card wise.

Anyway a big thankyou to anyone who can help me with this .

Phil

[Videodrome]

I have also been looking into these camcorders for a few weeks and have been tearing my hair out!

I just ordered the SD9 from Amazon because they recently advertised the Panasonics with a free 8GIG memory card for £397 all in! free post.
They also have a 16Gig SDHC card for just over £20 so all in thats £420 for a top camera and 24 GIG of removable memory!

I almost went for the Sony HDR-SR10e because I have PS3 and it felt a bit more sturdy infact when i tried the Panasonic SD9 in my big hands it just felt sooo tiny!

Anyway my budget was £400 and the Sony was pushing it at £440 on Amazon then it went to £460 so when the Sd9 was advertised with the 8GIG card for just under my budget i took that as a sign and it arrived yesterday!

It's the silver model, and I know it's silly but I preffer the black one but not many places do it! and it seems to be dearer just on colour!

Dixons have it for £397now too I but with no memory card. You can get round the delivery charge too for orders over a certain amount but just for a black version i think i'd rather have it with the free card and the Amazon deal is with a propper Panasonic SD card!

Also I'm happy with the Panasonic as i have a Panasonic Viera 42'' TV which that camcorder seems to be highly compattable with and even has extra features like true colour I think it was so it makes sense for me to go with the same brand i intend to watch the footage on.

If I had plenty of cash I would have went straight for the Canon HF10 coz it sounds like the build and picture quality is tops on those or maybee the Sony HDR_SR12e with massive 120GIG harddrive!

At the end of the day I'm very pleased to have a new HD camcorder for under £400! My last MiniDV JVC was a good camcorder but it was nearly £700 about 8 years ago and things have really moved on.

The Panasonic SD9 i reckon has a great feature list and compact pocket size! with 5.1 surround sound!!!
I know it's not supposed to perform the best in low light conditons but after reading up i don't think many makes or models do and it's not something i think i'll be shooting a lot of anyway!
I read you do want to shoot night parades and fireworks and stuff so maybee it's something you should test out first. I saw somewhere that if you fiddle with the aperture or what not you can really improve the nightshot quality so maybee it's something to practice before you go

Anyway...

Let me know what you choose and how you get on

all the best!
c.

[dave_bass5]

Cant help with the choice but i got a HF10 and plan on taking that to Disney in Feb.
I find low light footage to be ok for my use.
I didnt look around too much before i got my HF10 because it seemed to do what i needed more than anything esle around.
Having been before i know the HF10 will work for me.

[TwinCityWild]

Thanks to you both for taking the timeout to reply to my thread.. seriously appreciate it

Cheers for the links and info on the SD9 videodrome glad to know i'm not the only one who's been tearing their hair out over this dilema. I'm still stuck which way to go. Surfed the net last night to find the best prices/deal for the SD9 and HF100...the amazon one is definately the best for the SD9 as for the HF100 can get that with 2x4gb sd cards for £516. So it's a real toss up now..go over my self imposed budget by £120 or stay within it.

Me thinks i'm gonna have to go into town again and have a good olde fiddle with both cams before i make my decision. I might even cheekily ask if i could get chucked in a dark room out back with em both, shot some footage and then check the low light capability back on one of their big plasma/lcd screens. As if Currys and alike are going to allow me to do that .

Choices, Choices Choices???????

The choice is made even more difficult by the fact of how often am i going to use it???? Can i justify paying out the cash for something that won't get used loads except for holidays and family stuff etc.

I must admit it like you videodrome the idea of having a panasonic camcorder to go with my panasonic plasma certainly sounds a sensible idea.

So you can fiddle with the apperture on the SD9 then to improve the quality...well that would certainly help..

I'd certainly be lying if i didn't say after just holding the 2 camcorders in question the SD9 felt fantastic in my hand and that is a big big factor for me and i would say most people.

Have to say...who would want to pay £50 - £100 extra just for the colour of the SD9????? sure black is cool but pay extra for it...that's "NUTS"...besides which like you videodrome i haven't even seen a black one anywhere?????

Anyway..will definately keep you posted on which one i go for...this weekend i'm gonna go into town and make my mind up.

Thanks again to you both for the help..much appreciated.

Phil

[dave_bass5]

Im sure you will be happy with what ever you get.
For me small, HD and good low light was important. And while i probably could have gotten better low light in another cam they were bigger.
I too was put off by the fact that while i take 1000's of still shots with my DSLR i have a Pana GS50 at home than hasn't been touched for about 2-3 years so i knew i wouldn't take much with the new cam. But having it with me most of the time helps and for that small was important.

The Canon HF100/10 has Cinema mode on it and that really helps with low light. It gives the footage a different tone curve and this helps keep noise at bay.
I have some very low light footage of my band doing a sound check in a basement venue. Just a couple of disco lights on us and a few small ambient spots in the ceiling and it looks very good.
If you want i can send you a link to the original footage to download and have a look at. Pm me your email address if you do. It wont be until tonight though as im at work now and dont have that footage on me.

I also have a small clip i shot at a wedding reception. This was in a very dark barn and again, looks fine to me. I have this with me so if you do want it let me know.

[dave_bass5]

Oh, just to add. Im one of the NUTS that did spend more on a black cam.
I also wanted the internal 16GB as well but in hindsight, i would go for the HF100 if i had the chance. I tend to use the SD card more than the internal RAM anyway these days as its more convenient.

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by TwinCityWild

Have to say...who would want to pay £50 - £100 extra just for the colour of the SD9????? sure black is cool but pay extra for it...that's "NUTS"...besides which like you videodrome i haven't even seen a black one anywhere?????

The SD9 in black (HDC-SD9D) is exclusive to C*rrys and Dix0ns. Dix0ns online sells it for about the same as Amaz0n (their prices have been dropping over the past few weeks pretty much in tandem). The payoff with Amaz0n is that you get an 8GB card (assuming that offer still stands), while Dix0ns supply you with a 4GB card (I seem to recall they don't mention this on the website, but I got my SD9 from Dix0ns and it came with a 4GB Panasonic SD card as standard). You get free delivery with Amaz0n, too.

So no, I personally wouldn't pay £50-100 extra just for the colour - but then there's no need to.

Andrew.

[TwinCityWild]

Ooops you know when you have one of those open mouth insert foot moments So you went and spent the extra on the black then dave..must admit having looked at pictures it does look cool. Just don't tell my bank balance i said that

It certainly sounds like you're very happy with the choice of the HF10 which considering the HF100 is the same cam just without the internal memory makes the case for the HF100 greater in my eyes. For me it really helps to get an endorsement off someone who owns and actually uses the cam. Espcially as this will be my first ever camcorder. Will admit to being a complete novice.

I know what you mean about the cinema mode on the cam...i checked out more footage on vimeo yesterday particulary stuff where people had listed what mode they used on the cam while filming at night. It seems that all the best night footage was filmed in cinema at 30p. Now i'll admit that the figure 30p means not that much to me if anything at all but going by what i've seen and adding in what you've said that's the way to go to get good night shots.

So is that what you've used when shooting your band and at the wedding dave?

Must say a big thankyou for the offer of the clips, really appreciate it and will send you my email address soon as i finish writing this.

Actually going off the actuall camcorder for 2 secs..you any idea how much in the way of sd cards you're likely to take to Florida...Gb's that is? just curious. Also i'm guessing you're taking a spare battery too...one thing that does put the canon down a bit for me is the fact the battery seems to last only an 1hour at the highest setting. Is that correct? or am i wrong? just another thing i read and another thing to add the price...these things never do it cheap do they

Thanks for the info on the SD9 Andrew...believe me when i say i certainly haven't ruled it out at all. The amazon deal does still stand and it's a really good one in my eyes too...which goes in the favour of the SD9 for me. Wish they would do similar for the HF100 on amazon. All the good deals for the HF100 are pretty obscure sites that have me slightly wary of giving my credit card details to.

Anyway...hopefully by this weekend i'll have made my mind up...after annoying some shop assisstant in currys as i fiddle for a while with both cams

Phil

[dave_bass5]

Phil.
It wasn't actually the fact that it was Black, but i did like the black finish better so it did help push me towards the HF10. It was really for the 16GB of memory.
The way i use my HF10 is that i record most of my stuff on to the card, that way i can take the card in to work and play with it etc on my Pc there. Its much easier than having to hook the HF10 up to the PC as you have to power it from the mains, no choice, even on a full battery and that makes it a pain if i have to carry around the PSU as well.
I then just use the internal memory as a back up. At least i know if i do run out of SD space ive got something to fall back on. And you can copy footage from the internal memory to the card. This works for me.
so far though ive not shot enough at any one time to even fill the 4GB card up.

Ive not worked out how much to take to Florida yet. I dont think ill shoot that much as ill also take my Canon 40D and i feel a lot more comfortable shooting stills. Video is a good idea but i find when i have both with me the HF10 doesn't get used much (if at all). I have a 4GB card + the 16GB internal so i think ill get an 8GB SD card and thats it. Not going to bother taking a spare battery, cant justify the expense just for one trip. Ill take the PSU with me. Yes, you dont get much more than an hour out of the battery i believe but ive not had mine run out yet whiel out shooting.
Im very wary of how long i can sit down and watch home video and i know i wont shoot more than a couple of hours at the very most over the 10 days we are there. Compare that to the fact ill probably take close to 2000 shots with my 40D (and this is our second trip). I do want to use it more, i just know that it will be a struggle not to reach for the 40D most of the time.
As i have said, i have a GS50 at home thats not been touched for a couple of years. I just thought it time i had some video of the kids and having it in HD appealed to me at the time i got the HF10.
Saying that it nice that i can have it with me when i go out and its smaller than taking the 40D (it even fits in my suit trouser pocket) so i am trying to shoot more.

I think the deal with 30fps is that its ideal for web use and so doesn't matter what country you are in, it will still play smoothly (so why dont we get that feature in the PAL version eh?). Ive tried 25fps and find its not really usable if there is anything moving fast in the scene.
Ive also posted a couple of clips on Vimeo but nothing really showing what the cam can do
http://www.vimeo.com/1021906

[Mr Lazy]

Originally Posted by TwinCityWild

For me it really helps to get an endorsement off someone who owns and actually uses the cam. Espcially as this will be my first ever camcorder. Will admit to being a complete novice.

I have the HF100 and another vote from me. If it will be your first camcorder then you are a lucky bunny.

i checked out more footage on vimeo yesterday particulary stuff where people had listed what mode they used on the cam while filming at night. It seems that all the best night footage was filmed in cinema at 30p. Now i'll admit that the figure 30p means not that much to me if anything at all

As Dave touched on, the 30fps is on the US version. The UK version has a 25fps option. I don't use the 25fps mode (other than experimenting).

All the good deals for the HF100 are pretty obscure sites that have me slightly wary of giving my credit card details to.

Have you subscribed to the HF10/HF100 thread? On there a chap recently bought a HF100 from equipmentexpress.co.uk with a very good bundle deal, take a look.

[TwinCityWild]

Thanks for all the help so far Dave..really do appreciate it.

Also thanks steve for mentioning about equipment express and the hf10/hf100 thread. I've checked out the bundle deal at equipment express and its definately a good one.

Anyway as you guys have pretty much convinced me to treat myself to the HF100 i hope you don't mind but i'm going to carry on picking your brains

First dumb question...Do you both mainly use the preset modes on the camcorder? ie they more than good enough? there might be times when something happens really quick or i see something and i won't have much time to fiddle with settings etc.

Second dumb question...you've both used the camcorder for a while just thought i'd ask you what in your opinion you found was the best setting for certain situations? ie nightime shooting with moving objects (whether it's cars or say a night parade at disney), day time shooting outdoors and then daytime indoors? oh and while i'm at it low light indoors.

Anyway thanks again for all the help...i honestly do appreciate it

[Mr Lazy]

Originally Posted by TwinCityWild

Also thanks steve for mentioning about equipment express and the hf10/hf100 thread. I've checked out the bundle deal at equipment express and its definately a good one.

NP. In fact I would have bought from them but at the time they didn't have it in stock so I bought from play. Typically, the following week EE added even more to their bundle

i hope you don't mind but i'm going to carry on picking your brains

It won't take long.

Do you both mainly use the preset modes on the camcorder? ie they more than good enough?

Yes they are more than good enough for 90% of the time. There was a recent discussion on this on the HF10/100 thread. It depends what you are shooting and the situation. I'm one for 'playing around' - recently I've been messing about with depth of field, not that you get much with consumer camcorders but the results were quite pleasing (note to self: must get a tripod).

there might be times when something happens really quick or i see something and i won't have much time to fiddle with settings etc.

Yeah this is always the problem. If you have time you could hit the Easy button (does this work mid-day through recording?, I don't recall, I've only used it once just to play with it) but of course then you run the risk of getting wobblecam

thought i'd ask you what in your opinion you found was the best setting for certain situations? ie nightime shooting with moving objects (whether it's cars or say a night parade at disney)

haven't done much nightime shooting (indoors or out) yet. The key thing is, you need as much light as possible and no setting is going to get around that. I took some nightime outdoor footage on holiday but it was frankly awful no matter how much I played with exposure etc. I took some indoor evening footage of a disco/stage type enviroment and I think i used either the tungsten or fluorescent setting and it was surprisingly good. TIP: do as little panning as possible. If you do need to pan, do it very slowly.

day time shooting outdoors

On a bright summers day I've often turned the exposure down several steps to compensate for the camera making faces look too bright and therefore losing detail. There are several options for doing this ie. changing shutter speed/apeture or using one of the picture settings (cloudy/daylight). In general, basic photography techniques work the same here.

and then daytime indoors?

haven't done a huge amount of this yet but auto settings seem to work well here so long as the light is reasonable

oh and while i'm at it low light indoors.

ahh the holy grail...again not done a huge amount yet but that will change now that the nights are drawing in...Cine mode works well here (reduces grain, at the expense of colours looking less vivid IMO).

[dave_bass5]

Cant really add much to what steve has said. Im pretty much in agreement with all of it.
For exposure control i tend to use the joystick to drop it down a bit if it looks like the highlights might get blown out (like skin). The thing to remember here is that once in manual control you then loose auto exposure. This is good for keeping the exposure constant but you do need to remember that if you go and shoot a different scene the exposure might be wrong. I do find it very easy to drop in and out of manual though so its not a big issue. Its just a nudge up on the joystick to switch between either mode.

[stormchaser]

hi
try and collect as many of those wee sachets of silica gel as you can and keep in your camera bag for the tempreature difference from the air con etc and then stepping out into the florida sun

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by stormchaser

try and collect as many of those wee sachets of silica gel as you can and keep in your camera bag for the tempreature difference from the air con etc and then stepping out into the florida sun

Desiccant won't help, because condensation forms when your cold camcorder comes into contact with the warm, moist air outside. The problem is the moisture in the the outdoor environment, and there's nothing you can do about that in advance.

The only way to minimise this is to avoid moving from A/C to outdoors quickly. Let your kit bag warm up a little before you open it. Chances are you'll still get caught out by condensation if the ambient humidity is high enough.

Andrew.

[stormchaser]

hi
you're completely wrong ,as someone who has been to florida 10 times now they work perfectly

[dave_bass5]

Cant say i had any problems going in and out of AC when i went to Florida last year with my camera gear.
I guess its a bit safer now if you aren't using tape based cams.

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by stormchaser

you're completely wrong ,as someone who has been to florida 10 times now they work perfectly

You may not have had a condensation problem, but that has nothing to do with using desiccant gel. As I said, the condensation forms when something cold (in this case a camcorder) comes into contact with warm, humid air. The moisture is in the ambient atmosphere, not your kit bag.

Each to their own, though.

Andrew.

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by dave_bass5

Cant say i had any problems going in and out of AC when i went to Florida last year with my camera gear. I guess its a bit safer now if you aren't using tape based cams.

It doesn't seem to affect flash memory camcorders (or rather, they're less likely to shut down with a warning on start-up). Harddrive camcorders can still be a little sensitive.

Andrew.