[newbie1980]

Hi everyone!

I know these threads have been done to death, but I cannot decide which camcorder to get, no matter how hard I try

so any input would be welcome.

Let's start with my story.

I have never owned a camcorder before. I will mainly use it to film my 11 week old daughter growing up. This is not to say I will not grow to enjoy it, I love my gadgets and I might end up becoming an enthusiast and filming lots of other things....

My tv is NOT full HD (Sony KDL-40 D3000), so the whole 1080i/1080p issue should be irrelevant for me right?

Originally, my budget was 450, no more than 550. but for the right camera I am willing to turn the lights off for a month or two

This is still hypothetical because I have not held any of these in my hands yet, this might change my opinion as well.

Sony HDR-TG3E:

Pros:

- I love the design
- cheapest out of the ones that interest me so far
- 50 quid cashback until the end of August
- size (this might be quite important for me, as I use my little pentax optio that fits into my pocket a lot more than My Nikon SLR)
- I could shoot in SD until I have upgraded my Mac in 2 months time

Cons:

- no viewfinder
- probably worst of the bunch, but might be a worthwhile compromise if size is so important to me.
- sony memory sticks are, and always will be, ridiculously expensive. 16GB doesn't seem all that much if you think it's only 2 hours worth of HD footage

Canon F100/10


Pros:

- great reviews
- SDHC cards, which will only get cheaper and bigger in terms of memory over time
- quite a bit better that the TG3E
- still relatively small and light.

Cons:

- no viewfinder
- a proper camcorder so it won't fit into my pocket

Sony SR-11:

Pros:

- 60GB HD
- viewfinder
- sturdy
- bigger display
- 50 quid cashback till end of August

Cons:

- all the dangers of using a hard-drive; can't be used over 3000m
- size (as I said before, once held in my hands, I might decide that I would rather have something big, but until I try, i would say I prefer small and light)
- sony memory cards are expensive
- quite a bit above my budget, even with 50 quid cashback.


2 further possibilities to confuse you even further:

get the Canon FS100 for 240 quid now. Forget about HD until christmas or so. No need to worry about needing to upgrade my Mac either. Might be enough since I never had a cam before. Add to that that with the HD cams, HDMI cable, spare battery and or memory cards have not even been considered in my budget

Canon HV30:


Pros:

- no AVCHD trouble, no need to upgrade my Mac.
- no trouble with Hard disk space and the worry of failing computers

Cons:

I don't like the design; I know this isn't true and many people swear by HDV, but I just can't get my head around the idea to spend so much money on a camera and still having to use tapes to archive instead of memory cards/hard drives. and yes I know that i can of course still archive it on the computer.

If you have just read all this, thank you for your time.

ANY input is welcome, I am of course also open for suggestions of you think there are other cameras out there I should be considering.

[milkmanchris]

You will struggle with your Powerbook G4 with AVCHD files.

Unless you have a look at voltaic.

[A n d r e w]

So many dilemmas, so little time!

They're all fine camcorders, but let's get pruning.

Since you're already planning on upgrading your Mac, I'd advise you forget about standard definition and go for HD. An Intel Mac will handle the editing, as you're no doubt aware. You'll have an HDTV one day. In the meantime, you still have the option of burning your edited videos to regular DVDs, and you'll have all that sweet HD footage for future use.

If £550 is your uppermost limit, forget the SR11: it's going to be just over that limit even before you start factoring in cards and a spare battery. Same with the HV30: the basic unit itself is still around the £600 mark. In other words, wave bye-bye to the idea of a viewfinder, unless you want to spend at least £600. You could get a camera for half that amount with a viewfinder (e.g. the Panasonic GS330) but only if you sacrifice high def for standard def. Not sure the payoff is worth it there.

That leaves the TG3, HF10 or HF100.

It appears that none of these strikes you as the perfect camcorder, right? Okay, so what differentiates them? As you've pointed out, it's picture quality and adaptability (HF10/100) versus pocketability (TG3).

That's your call: you'll have to decide which matters most: being able to slip your camera into your pocket so it's ready to go whenever your daughter is, or being able to plug in an external mic, add wide-angle adpators, etc if you get into videography more seriously. From what I gather there's not a whole lot in it vis-a-vis PQ between these camcorders, though the HF10 might just pip the TG3 at the post. Others might be able to give you a more definitive answer.

Obviously I've not resolved your dilemma. Possibly I've not even helped. But that's how I'd organise the issues to decide on.

Of course should you reach the conclusion (I think you're half-way there) that whatever choice you make will be a compromise due to budgetary constraints, you could always go for something like the Panasonic SD9. It's AVCHD, so you'll need to wait for your new Mac before you crack on with editing. But you'll save a few quid: it's available for about £425 at present.

Andrew.

[MarkE19]

Buying an SD cam now is a waste of money IMO. You may not have a full HD TV at the moment, but you may do in the not too distant future. You can still make SD DVD's from an HD cam. Resale value of an SD cam will be next to nothing.

Buying a cam that records to tape has many advantages. The tape is the safest archive format, so you can recover the footage at a later date. Tapes are very cheap (under £2 each) and are easily available all over the world. HDV is the easiest HD format to edit on a PC/Mac.
I would strongly advise that you don't dismiss a tape format camcorder just because you think tape is old technology - there is still a klot of life in this format IMO.

Also you do need to hold the cam in your hand and make sure it fits! Small cams in large hands tend to be difficault to hold steady.

Mark.

[redsox_mark]

You've got a good short list there....

Go for HD.

As for the model - I agree HDV tape shouldn't be dismissed, but I do understand why you might perfer a non-tape model. Given your comments about portability and your budget, the TG3 looks the best choice to me. The HF10/HF100 (and SR11) may be slightly better quality wise, but you'll be hard pushed to see the difference. And you can put it in your pocket.

[newbie1980]

Originally Posted by milkmanchris

You will struggle with your Powerbook G4 with AVCHD files.

Unless you have a look at voltaic.

I am aware of this. I will upgrade no later than late April when the next generation will come out, either a new powerbook or possibly an iMac

[newbie1980]

I really appreciate the feedback guys

[rhubarbe]

I think that this ticks most of your boxes:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/18/p...rs-now-with-e/

The SD100 has a viewfinder, SDHC, a cam control ring, washes the dishes, and takes the dog for a walk.

Downside is that it'll be a tad pricey when it first arrives to market and it isn't available yet.

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

The SD100 has a viewfinder, SDHC, a cam control ring, washes the dishes, and takes the dog for a walk.

Downside is that it'll be a tad pricey when it first arrives to market and it isn't available yet.

Yup. But since the OP'll have to turn the lights out for a few months in order to accommodate it financially, s/he might as well be out there walking the dog him/herself. Cheaper than the gym. Might as well cancel the gym membership, too, save some more dosh.

Assuming the SD100 is going to come in at around the £700 (but do I have any idea? to answer my own question: no, not really), I'd still fancy the SR11. It feels good, too. The SR11, that is.

By the way, my favourite part of the endgadget review is the photo with the caption "With MARUCHIMANYUARURINGU." I suppose it's called that because faster than you can say "MARUCHIMANYUARURINGU" you've manually set the shutter speed, iris, and focus. It's that good.

[newbie1980]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

I think that this ticks most of your boxes:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/18/p...rs-now-with-e/

The SD100 has a viewfinder, SDHC, a cam control ring, washes the dishes, and takes the dog for a walk.

Downside is that it'll be a tad pricey when it first arrives to market and it isn't available yet.

ooh, very interesting. do you know if it is just the sony hard drives that cannot be used above 3000m? I very much doubt that this will ever be an issue for me, but it bugs me nonetheless.

[rhubarbe]

I don't know. I always use SDHC cams because there is no pesky HDD to go wrong.

OTOH, I spent all day today repairing a PC that had gone belly up over the weekend due to HDD failure, so maybe I am a tad biased.

[newbie1980]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

I don't know. I always use SDHC cams because there is no pesky HDD to go wrong.

OTOH, I spent all day today repairing a PC that had gone belly up over the weekend due to HDD failure, so maybe I am a tad biased.

makes sense. not something I am particularly keen on, it just seems that most of those with a viewfinder also have HDD

[inzaman]

I was in your boat a few weeks ago with those selections and at the end of the day the compact size of the TG3 won me over. This is a camcorder that i know i will take out with me and it will therefore get some use the othre ones on the list i knew i would only take out when i made an effort to take a camcorder out, if that makes sense.

[newbie1980]

Originally Posted by inzaman

I was in your boat a few weeks ago with those selections and at the end of the day the compact size of the TG3 won me over. This is a camcorder that i know i will take out with me and it will therefore get some use the othre ones on the list i knew i would only take out when i made an effort to take a camcorder out, if that makes sense.

funny you should mention this again, now that i have been thinking about it for yet another night

knowing myself, i will have to get the TG3 because this is the only one i will use regularly. thanks for your input

[newbie1980]

2 weeks on and i still haven't decided. I have just seen that I could get the SR10 for the same price as the TG3