Advice on HD Camcorder Needed

[DazzaJersey]

Heya, think i'm in the right place. I'm looking at buying a HD camcorder for around £500 excl VAT, currently the Sony HDR-SR10E which is £400ish(excl VAT) from dabs.com including the £50 Cashback from Sony.

I'd like a camera that's going to produce good video when used in the snow and at night as i'm going to America Snowboarding and then onto Vegas for a few days this Christmas. I'd love to have the camera before then though to use over the summer etc.
Also, I noticed in the manual for the Sony HDR-SR10E that you shouldn't turn it on at altitudes over 3000 meters (9,800 feet). Is it possible to stop the HDD from turning on when I turn the camcorder on so I can record straight to ProDuo memory without breaking the hard drive? Otherwise i'm probably going to have to start looking for a flash memory camcorder.

The 240fps slow-motion feature is really grabbing me, is it at HD as well and can you only record at 240fps for 3 seconds causing the final result to be 12 seconds long, all the youTube clips i've seen so far seem to be around 10-12 seconds long but noone has mentioned it.

Real Questions:
How long can you record at 240fps for?
If need be, can you turn the HDD off/take it out?
Will the HDR-SR10 produce good quality video on a snowy mountain and at night in las vegas?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Dazza

Edit:- Just saw that the Highest Mountain in Utah where i'm going is 13,500 feet, not sure how high up the ski-resort is yet though so still looking.
Edit2:- "Village Height: 2,104m (6,900ft), Highest Ski Lift: 3,048m (10,000ft)" at the resort, looks pretty safe to me. (Yea I relealise i'm having a conversation with myself, answering my own questions but still really looking forward to feedback)

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by DazzaJersey

Is it possible to stop the HDD from turning on when I turn the camcorder on so I can record straight to ProDuo memory without breaking the hard drive? Otherwise i'm probably going to have to start looking for a flash memory camcorder.

This is a good question. Not sure I've seen a definitive answer to this one. There's a good chance the drive spins up when you power on, even if you have the menu set for memory stick recording. Not sure whether spinning up momentarily above the recommended height ceiling would be enough to destroy a harddrive, though. I've also heard of people using the more recent SR12 at points higher than the recommended limit (for example, on a gondola).

I'm averse to harddrives in cameras anyway, but I'd still be wary about buying one for use in any high-impact environment such as winter sports.

Andrew.

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by DazzaJersey

The 240fps slow-motion feature is really grabbing me, is it at HD as well and can you only record at 240fps for 3 seconds causing the final result to be 12 seconds long, all the youTube clips i've seen so far seem to be around 10-12 seconds long but noone has mentioned it.

The "smow smooth record" will shoot for 3 seconds at 4 times the normal frame rate (so 100 frames/second on a "PAL" model; ~120 on an "NTSC"). When you watch it in slow motion it will be 12 seconds long. It isn't full resolution - you get a lower resolution picture (but exactly how much you lose I'm not sure).

[Mr Lazy]

The SR10 does not have a viewfinder...personally I wouldn't want to film in snow using only the LCD screen, but if you've done it before and you're ok with it that's fine. The SR11 has one.

I would have thought that the hard drive would be always on...Sony's thinking would be that you never know when you might want to switch from memory stick to hard drive. But we're guessing here, and unless an owner can tell you if he/she can hear the hard drive spinning I would suggest calling/sending an email to Sony customer services to ask them. Remember that removing the hard drive would invalidate the warranty so even if it was easy (which I doubt) I wouldn't want to risk it.

One other thing you might need to consider is operating temperatures - not sure how cold it gets in them there mountains!

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by Mr Lazy

Remember that removing the hard drive would invalidate the warranty so even if it was easy (which I doubt) I wouldn't want to risk it.

It has been done, but it involves taking the camera apart: no conveniently placed access panel here. So unless you're cool with scores of tiny little screws rolling about on the kitchen table, I wouldn't be thinking about it just yet!

Andrew.

[DazzaJersey]

Originally Posted by Courtaj

I'm averse to harddrives in cameras anyway, but I'd still be wary about buying one for use in any high-impact environment such as winter sports.

Are you talking about dropping/falling over and breaking it? I've only been snow boarding once before so the only time i'd be using it is standing around recording family.

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

The "smow smooth record" will shoot for 3 seconds at 4 times the normal frame rate (so 100 frames/second on a "PAL" model; ~120 on an "NTSC"). When you watch it in slow motion it will be 12 seconds long. It isn't full resolution - you get a lower resolution picture (but exactly how much you lose I'm not sure).

Ok, that's what i thought, though I havent seen it written anywhere by sony or anyone that the resolution is lower.

Originally Posted by Mr Lazy

One other thing you might need to consider is operating temperatures - not sure how cold it gets in them there mountains!

Another good point, I've just checked and the coldest it gets is 31 Degrees during January which will be fine.

Originally Posted by Courtaj

It has been done, but it involves taking the camera apart: no conveniently placed access panel here. So unless you're cool with scores of tiny little screws rolling about on the kitchen table, I wouldn't be thinking about it just yet!

I'm pretty competant with computers but I definately won't be taking my new camera apart to remove the HDD.

Everything looks fine to me so far. Anything else you think i should check out before purchasing? It's my first Camcorder but we've had them in the family before.

[redsox_mark]

Ok, that's what i thought, though I havent seen it written anywhere by sony or anyone that the resolution is lower.

Quoting the manual (handycam handbook) it says:

"Image quality of [SMTH SLW REC] is not as good as that of normal recording".

But no details on exactly what "not as good" means...

[twoodley]

What about the TG3e?
Can be bought for £500 (£425 excl vat), and with £50 cash back makes it only £375 excl vat.
No hard drive to worry about, and fits in your pocket. Also if you have enough cards no problem with storage.

[DazzaJersey]

Originally Posted by twoodley

What about the TG3e?
Can be bought for £500 (£425 excl vat), and with £50 cash back makes it only £375 excl vat.
No hard drive to worry about, and fits in your pocket. Also if you have enough cards no problem with storage.

I did look at that for a short while. Don't really fancy shelling out the extra cash for high capacity memory cards or the idea of carrying round 3 extra cards. I also read that it wasn't very comfortable to hold.

[mmace]

i've used the slo-mo on the SR10 and it does record it in 1080i, but it's darker than a normal shot would be and there's a bit more grain

[DazzaJersey]

Originally Posted by mmace

i've used the slo-mo on the SR10 and it does record it in 1080i, but it's darker than a normal shot would be and there's a bit more grain

Oh that's pretty awesome, another question i thought of was, how exactly does the slow motion work? Do you chose it from a menu then press record as normal and it stops recording after 3 seconds OR can you be recording, say someone skateboarding, then press a slowmotion button, it will record that part of the video at 200fps for 3 seconds then carry on recording afterwards at 60fps?

[Samurai Weasel]

DazzaJersey - got my SR10 in front of me. Let me list how the slow mo works from the menu:

• turn on(!)
• press Home menu button top left of screen
• choose "Smth Slw Rec"
• SR10 takes about 3 secs to sort its settings out and is caching slowmo video the whole time.

then to take a slow-mo, you just press the rec button. it records the video it cached in the last 3 seconds before u pressed the button, in slow-mo. it takes about 5 secs to write that to the HDD before u can press the rec button to capture another 3 secs of footage

If you power off the camera when in smth slw rec mode, then power back on, it doesnt go back into smth slw rec mode. you have to manually go thru menus again like top right. also the quickon/off button (like a standby mode) doesnt work in smth slw rec mode

Any more questions, let me know & will test (if I can!) on the SR10 in front of me.

PS. It's my 1st camcorder but I think its a cracking little camera, and produces great videos

[DazzaJersey]

Originally Posted by Samurai Weasel

DazzaJersey - got my SR10 in front of me. Let me list how the slow mo works from...

...cracking little camera, and produces great videos

Thanks for that Samurai, that's exactly what I wanted to know, thoguh not what I wanted to hear I've ordered my SR10 now so should hopefully be with me next week.