[redsox_mark]

JVC launches their first AVCHD camcorders.
Interesting is the two of them can record in either high def MPEG2 (like the earlier HD Everio models) or AVCHD. The third is AVCHD only.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...D10-35248.htm#

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

JVC launches their first AVCHD camcorders.
Interesting is the two of them can record in either high def MPEG2 (like the earlier HD Everio models) or AVCHD. The third is AVCHD only.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...D10-35248.htm#

interesting additions mark,a bit more info on them. http://gizmodo.com/5016678/jvc-expan...vchd-camcorder

[lurcher]

Thanks Mark , still no viewfinders though !.

[redsox_mark]

More details in the press release here
http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/...gz-hd40_eu.pdf

Another interesting note - the HD30 and HD40 (the ones which can record high def MPEG2 or AVCHD), have a mode "*For HDV compatible stream via i.LINK". I.e. they can record HDV format to HDD. This is also a first; the previous Everios used a different bitrate than HDV.

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

More details in the press release here
http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/...gz-hd40_eu.pdf

Another interesting note - the HD30 and HD40 (the ones which can record high def MPEG2 or AVCHD), have a mode "*For HDV compatible stream via i.LINK". I.e. they can record HDV format to HDD. This is also a first; the previous Everios used a different bitrate than HDV.

the hdv compatable stream via i.link for me it would be better the other way ie hdd to hdv,why there is no viewfinder i find hard i hope this is not the way all consumer cams are heading.

[redsox_mark]

JVC were the first to start dropping viewfinders; and unfortunatly it is a general trend.

[senu]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

JVC were the first to start dropping viewfinders; and unfortunatly it is a general trend.

Thanks Mark
Losing the viewfinder also makes little sense given how much power LCDs consume
If DSLRs are offering "live view" but keeping optical viewfinders as the preffered option, I wonder why the viewfinder ( like mic in, av out, headphones and manual controls) are gradually being left in Semi-Pro only camcorder kit
I recall using a Canon XL1s ( viewfinder only) initially felt odd but I soon realised if I only had to have one , it would be a viewfinder although for framing awkward angles the LCD is very handy
Also on the subject of mpeg2 for hi def encoding, I wonder why JVC are choosing it. It makes sense on a tiny tape but thier HDDs will have to be large to accommodate it
Mpeg2 is also being outmoded due to is size, and limits of 25Mps encoding which a well sorted 17mps AVCHD file ( though harder to edit and easier to degrade) can compare with
Watching identical scenes I recorded on HDV and AVCHD in very good conditions ( for comparison) it seems clear that the front end, and not Codec/file format make more of a difference

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by senu

Also on the subject of mpeg2 for hi def encoding, I wonder why JVC are choosing it. It makes sense on a tiny tape but thier HDDs will have to be large to accommodate it
Mpeg2 is also being outmoded due to is size, and limits of 25Mps encoding which a well sorted 17mps AVCHD file ( though harder to edit and easier to degrade) can compare with
Watching identical scenes I recorded on HDV and AVCHD in very good conditions ( for comparison) it seems clear that the front end, and not Codec/file format make more of a difference

Well, you gave 2 reasons (ease of editing/playing being the main one). To me this is a nice feature, to have the option of recording in either HDV or AVCHD. We have seen some people who really want a HDD cam, but concened if their PC can handle AVCHD. Supporting both is the best of both worlds, and certainly better than the previous High Def Everios (which only had MPEG2, and a lower bitrate, unique MPEG2 implementation). Yes it takes up more space, but on their 120 GB model, it means you can shoot either 10 hours of HDV or 15 hours of AVCHD. On the 80 GB model, it's 6 hours of HDV or 10 hours of AVCHD. It's nice to have a choice.

[rhubarbe]

Without a viewfinder these, to me, seem to bring nothing new to the party.

[redsox_mark]

Doesn't the GZ-HD30 being the "world’s smallest Full HD camcorder with 1.8” HDD" excite you?

The dual MPEG2/AVCHD support (including a HDV compatible mode) I do find interesting; but I too would be more interested if they had a viewfinder.

[felix2]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

We have seen some people who really want a HDD cam, but concened if their PC can handle AVCHD.

And people who wanted HDD medium but wanted HDV format! I think these new cams do look interesting, and I get the sense JVC may have been listening to what "keen amateurs" (rather than point-and-shooters) might want.

I think we can probably say that AVCHD (and MPEG4, H264) CODECs are as good as their equivalent MPEG2 alternatives, and are in fact more efficient - and soon, if not now, will be better for end-use. But not necessarily for heavy editing / post production. Even MPEG2 was never meant for editing (and is still frowned upon to varying degrees by pros, even HDV). So for semi-pro work, at the moment, I would've thought HDV still has to be the choice, even though my heart would rather say AVCHD. I'm guessing that's really why the higher end two new JVC cams offer both formats. Maybe the day will come when editing in intermediate codecs &/or smart rendering &/or whatever will mean that AVCHD will be seen as just as "serious" a format as HDV (or other higher end MPEG2 - or MPEG4 - formats) for editing and production?...

They've also included things like a mic input on all 3 (but no headphone socket on the cheapest! I never dare to use a mic without listening to it recording, at least once per take!). And they've moved over to 1 CMOS, so it's looking more and more like the Sonys. Again on paper JVC really seem to be doing good stuff - I really hope the footage from the cams themselves (and the image stabilisers) don't disappoint...

[felix2]

Forgot to say, personally I never use the viewfinder and prefer the LCD, but most other people I know prefer the viewfinder. Power consumption for the 2 is not much different on my HC7 (according to manual): 4.0 W with viewfinder, 4.3 W with LCD (7.5% more).

[redsox_mark]

I'm not bothered by the power consumption difference. When shooting handheld, I generally prefer to use the viewfinder. It just feels more comfortable to me, and I can hold the cam steadier. When shooting on a tripod, I generally use the viewfinder (unless sun is an issue).

Felix2, it does seem in some ways JVC are going for the more prosumer market here, but if so I would have thought they would put a viewfinder - at least on the top models.

[senu]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

I'm not bothered by the power consumption difference. When shooting handheld, I generally prefer to use the viewfinder. It just feels more comfortable to me, and I can hold the cam steadier. When shooting on a tripod, I generally use the viewfinder (unless sun is an issue).

There are times when the LCD is a bonus (shooting from above) but I much prefer the viewfinder most other times
I can however learn to live without it if I have to
The power issue is relevant where you have a normal "1 hr" one, no access to power and the camcorder manufacturer clearly states power drain ( it could be they are getting less greedy!)
My question regarding JVCs motives was more of an open one rather than a criticism. The Pros accept HDV as Hi def ( grudgingly) the way they have not warmly embraced AVCHD yet.
Saying that, there are Panasonics which might change all that
I hope the JVCs deliver what they promise :The HD7 was anticlimatic