1st Camcorder purchase £300 Budget Max - Advice please?

[Slates71]

Hi.
I'm looking to purchase my 1st camcorder having used a digital camera for years. I have an absolute maximum budget of £300. I'm looking for a hard drive camcorder. I also considered maybe going for a High Definition camcorder but from initial checks I see the optical zoom isn't as good as a standard camcorder plus I'm sure it's very expensive. Can anyone offer advice as to what I should buy? I do want one with an HDD drive thats for sure. I have an HDTV thats why I considered a HD camcorder but maybe its out my price range. I don't want to go above £300, infact £250 would be ideal.
Any help would be most appreciated
Thanks,

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by Slates71

I also considered maybe going for a High Definition camcorder but from initial checks I see the optical zoom isn't as good as a standard camcorder plus I'm sure it's very expensive.

It is true that a High Def model is out of your budget (you would need £350 for a Panasonic SD5).

I assume your comment about the optical zoom relates to larger optical zoom on budget models. This is to do with the physics of small sensors on low end models being easier to create a large zoom; in practice these very large zooms aren't usable; 10 or 12x is enough.

I can't recommend any HDD cam in that pricerange. If you would consider flash memory, then the Canon FS10 or FS100 are worth a look.

[Slates71]

Surely there must be a decent camcorder that has a hard drive that is under £300. A friend of mine has a JVC Everio HDD that he paid £300 over a year ago.
All I'm looking for is a good quality camcorder with hard drive and a decent optical zoom around 34x
Can anyone reccomend one to a beginner. As I am new to this I don't need it to be top of the range... not at this stage anyway, so long as it produces decent footage.

[redsox_mark]

Both Sony and JVC have HDD cams under £300. It's not what I would choose, as their quality isn't as good as a good £200 DV model. Nor as good as a high def (Panasonic SD5) which can be had for £350. And I already gave my opinion on requiring a high zoom. Higher zoom means a smaller sensor; which means poorer overall performance.

But if that is what you want; there isn't much in it between the Sony and JVC models, video quality is similar. There is the Sony SR35 or SR55. The SR55 is better, but "only" has a 25x zoom. (The SR35 has a 40x zoom). Or the JVC MG330, which comes in various colours, and has a 35x zoom.

Others may have different suggestions.

[lurcher]

I think you need to look at the camcorder your friend got , check it out and if the PQ is ok for you then go for it.
If it doesn"t live up to expectations on viewing on your equipment , consider uping the budget or looking for a s/h higher pec HDD model with a larger sensor but smaller zoom.
You wouldn"t be able to hold a cam steady at the desired zoom range 34X , if you could get a job as a long range sniper.

[owizard]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Both Sony and JVC have HDD cams under £300. It's not what I would choose, as their quality isn't as good as a good £200 DV model. Nor as good as a high def (Panasonic SD5) which can be had for £350.

I would also recommend the Panasonic SD5 for £350. It's much better than the SD HDD camcorders in my opinion.

[Slates71]

Thanks for the help
I don't really want to go for a lens with an optical zoom of only 10 when a lot of camcorders around have 30x. I feel 30x is so good for use while on holidays looking across a bay etc. Now with this statement am I wrong? Should I really only be going for a 10x ?? If so that brings the Panny SD5 into play but its overbudget.
Is it worth me looking at a mini DV instead of a hard drive? Am I likely to get a better product for my money with a DV?
Didn't realsie how indepth it all is

[redsox_mark]

I feel 30x is so good for use while on holidays looking across a bay etc. Now with this statement am I wrong?

Unless you will be travelling with a tripod, even 10x is hard to hold steady. And the physics of lenses and sensors means that the models with a large zoom are the bottom of the range models, with small sensors. If you limit your choice to large optical zoom, you rule out many better models.

Is it worth me looking at a mini DV instead of a hard drive? Am I likely to get a better product for my money with a DV?

Yes, in this budget. E.g. Canon MD235, under £200. Even has 37x zoom....

[Slates71]

I apprciate your commnets on here,thank you. So in your opinion, in my position you have £300 at your disposal and have never owner a camcorder before only a digital camera. What do you go out and buy? Bearing in mind having never used one there are certain things I don't know about that I may not need to have on my camcorder just yet. I can always look into high def camcorders in the future.
Is the JVC Everio GZ-MG130 andy good?

[rhubarbe]

You buy the HDC-SD5 from Amazon for £350 with free delivery. If you can't afford it you wait until you can. There is no comparison between this and any HDD SD cam.

A 34x zoom is a complete waste of time unless you have a tripod - take it from me (and everybody else) because you won't be able to hold it still enough.

Even cams like the SD5 which have excellent optical image stabilisation (OIS) are not easy to hand hold steady at 10x zoom and at 34x it would be a complete waste of time.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but you did ask and we are all in agreement.

[Slates71]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

You buy the HDC-SD5 from Amazon for £350 with free delivery. If you can't afford it you wait until you can. There is no comparison between this and any HDD SD cam.

A 34x zoom is a complete waste of time unless you have a tripod - take it from me (and everybody else) because you won't be able to hold it still enough.

Even cams like the SD5 which have excellent optical image stabilisation (OIS) are not easy to hand hold steady at 10x zoom and at 34x it would be a complete waste of time.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but you did ask and we are all in agreement.

Thats a bit over my budget but as high definition is fairly new I'm tempted to hang on a few months to see what other HD camcorders come out. Or do you feel the SD5 is an excellent HD cam? I'm saying to myself 'wait a few months till its under £300' hmm, not sure
What are the negatives regarding the JVC GZ-MG130. ANy ideas?

[rhubarbe]

On a scale of 1 - 10 it would rate about 3. The SD5 would rate about 7.

HD camcorders are not new, they have been around for over two years now.

The SD5 is a steal at £350, but hey, it's your cash.

[Slates71]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

On a scale of 1 - 10 it would rate about 3. The SD5 would rate about 7.

HD camcorders are not new, they have been around for over two years now.

The SD5 is a steal at £350, but hey, it's your cash.

You're starting to convice me of the SD5. 2 things concern me, the £350 price tag and I'm still concerned about it only being 10x optical zoom. I know everyone has told em about the isssues with 34x zoom but when I messed around with a JVC GZ-MG130 i found it was ok at 34x. If the SD5 was closer to 20x I might be convinced. I think I need to maybe try one out in a shop first - thanks you your help here. Just 1 more thing, you don't consider it a negative point that the SD5 hasn't got hard drive?

[rhubarbe]

No, I consider it a definite plus point. It takes SDHC cards. You drop a HDD on the floor it breaks. You drop an SDHC card, well you probably catch it before it hits the ground but if not it suffers no damage.

You're on holiday and your HDD breaks. You lose all your clips. Your SDHC card dies you still lose the clips you have taken so far but you can buy another card and carry on using the cam.

In a year's time 32GB SDHC card will be about £40. 8GB cards are already only £15.

SDHC (IMHO) is definitely the way to go. the cam is smaller, lighter and you are more likelyu to take it with you than a great big thing with a HDD weighing half a kilo or more.

[rhubarbe]

No serious cam that any serious user would buy is ever anything more than 12x zoom until you get to high end pro cams that cost a fortune.