[dkE]

Hi all. Bit of a newbie when it comes to camcorders, but I want to buy a decent camcorder and will set budget accordingly.

I will use it for general holidays and recording growing kids stuff, but want a good quality (having burnt my fingers on the Sony DCR Sr 32, which has really let me down on recent hols - if only I had read this board before I bought!)

Anyway, I am narrowing choice down to Canon hf10 and hg10 (both seem popular in this forum), but I am struggling to see the difference in the two models - or are they the same?

I would pay more for extra quality if required, but on the other hand if they are features that are not of relevance to hobby user, then rather save money for additional battery etc.

Thanks.

[redsox_mark]

They are different. The main difference is the HG10 is HDD, the HF10 uses SD cards.

In terms of the quality of the video they take; they are similar; but the HF10 seems slightly better. I think this is simply because it is newer, and with each generation the AVCHD compression is improved slightly. The HF10 also supports a higher bitrate than the HG10.

I would go for the HF10; though if you want a HDD cam, you won't go wrong with the HG10, and it was posted on another thread Jessops has it at a bargin price of £499.

[rhubarbe]

The HG10 has a hard disk drive (40GB) for storage and has an EVF (electronic viewfinder) in addition to its LCD screen. It's bigger and heavier (504g to 380g) than the HF10.

The HF10 uses 16GB internal flash memory and you supplement this by inserting SDHC cards (currently available at up to 16GB - £45).

HF10 is possibly slightly better in terms of overall image quality at 25p, but there is really very little in it.

HG10 is being discontinued as far as I can see and there are some deals about at £499 (Jessops, Pixmania).

Yer pays yer money.....

[rhubarbe]

BH! 2 minutes this time.

[dkE]

Thanks for the replies, bearing in mind your comments, perhaps the HF100 is a good compromise (quality of HF10 but no hard drive)...and approx. £100 cheaper than the HF10...???

[redsox_mark]

Yes, the HF10 is just the HF100 with some internal memory (not HDD) built in. The HF10 is black and the HF100 is silver. Quality is the same.

[dkE]

I am now teetering between the Hf10 and the HF100 - looking at best prices there seems to be approximately £130 difference between the two. Can any one tell me the price (and name) of a good quality 16GB SD card (i have had cheap ones before and there were issues) so I can throw that into the equation?

Way I see it is the price of the HF100 plus a good quality SD card should be less than the HF10, but what you have is virtually the same product, n'est-ce pas?

[rhubarbe]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=16g...GGL_en___GB223

Depends. If you'd be seen dead with a silver camcorder.

[dkE]

I dont believe it - I have managed to confuse myself even more (as it seems do so many other newcomers to this market after a camcorder)!

After some further research, I came across the view that HDV may be more computer-friendly to edit/archive/view than AVCHD...

I have a fairly modest PC and laptop set-up and will want to import my recordings/edit them/ record my footage on DVD (for our family and relatives). If I understand the mass of technical information out there - this may be easier with HDV than AVCHD.

So now the Canon HV30 seems like a good option...or am I reading all this incorrectly..

Just to clarify, my other equipment is an approximately 5 year-old Sony Vaio desk top PC, a Dell Latitude 620 laptop, a standard DVD player and HD ready TV.

Getting so confused - appreciate any help...

[redsox_mark]

Yes, HDV's MPEG2 format is easier (doesn't need a fast of a PC) to edit. The other advantage of HDV cams is you also have an option to have the camcorder downconvert to DV (which is even easier to edit, and if your destination is standard DVD video that's all you need).

A 5 year old PC will likely struggle with even editing HDV, though downconverted to DV will be fine.

[dkE]

Thanks Mark - some further questions if you have the patience:

At this point its seems the HV30 wouldbe a better option because (in no particular order):

- media is cheaper and can be stored as back-up
- more flexibility in downconverting for SD play as well as copying edited footage back on to tape for playing from camera onto TV
- format easier to edit (surely my Dell Latitude with Intel® Core™2 Duo processor T7200, 2.00 GHz and 2 GB RAM can cope??)
- picture quality as good

How long can you get on an HDV tape recording at highest quality by the way?

If, on the other hand, I went AVCHD, I would have the problem that:

- I could only watch the footage from the memory cards (unedited)
- Editing may be too difficult for my PC (even the Dell) to cope with (although by editing, I will not be creating blockbusters but deleting/joining scenes)
- I cant downconvert to SD...

I think...

[redsox_mark]

All correct, though your laptop might be OK editing AVCHD as well. And in software you can convert to SD (with either format).

With HDV there is only one quality setting; you'll get 60 minutes on a standard tape; there are also 80 min tapes.

[cogla]

dk
I was wondering the same as you
Whether to get a HDD Canon HG10, or the SV20

The latter involves tapes which I do not want to be bothered with; you are meant to remove the tape when not actually filming; tho' it would be easier to edit and make DVDs

I plumped for the HG10 and really like it
The quality when played from camera to 42 inch Plasma is great
Now I save the film to an external hard drive, perhaps better software will come along in the next few years
What-ever you buy will be good but will also lose at least half it's value over the next 3 or 4 years
Be prepared for negative equity from day one

Good luck with whatever...............

http://www.vimeo.com/1061540

[dkE]

Agghhh! I feel like that bloke in the Fast Show who is stood at the bar and agrees with everything everyone says, even though it contradicts his own previous statements......

...accordingly - following last 2 comments - I have turned back to the HG10: convenience of hard disk (no media to worry about), probably can do the limited editing required on my laptop, excellent reviews and top price...

So - unless someone wants to buy me a pint and tell me another, conflicting opinion (like "God - dont do that, pay the extra and get the HF10/100) - then I think I will take that route (thanks to last poster for reflecting the dilemma)

[redsox_mark]

Either choice is good, so you can take some comfort from that.

Until this recent generation of AVCHD cams, I would go for the HDV model, as the quality was better, and I don't find using tape to be an issue. But today they are so close in terms of quality you can go either way.

no media to worry about

This phrase (or "don't want to mess with") is often used when talking about tape. I don't find tape a worry, in fact if you don't have tape you need to worry more about how to backup your footage.

Having said that - and in spite of being one to sing the praises of tape - I think my next cam will probably be an AVCHD model (unless something else gets invented first!). Another advantage of non-tape models is no issues with having to clean the heads, or possible dropouts.

[rhubarbe]

But at least you can just change a tape if you have a problem with media. Or a garbled SDHC card can be swapped out.

Big HDD though....... hmmm.

[dkE]

You tease...

Well I went with the HG10 in the end at the Jessops price of £499 plus a £25 discount code making £474...

Looking forward to it...

Oh - one last request: any recommendations as to a good value mini HDMI cable for connecting camcorder to TV?

Cheers...