[MartinImber]

I am thinking of getting an HDV camera next year, seems to be the best choice for what I want.

There sems to be very few models available, are they being phased out or something?

[alanjw]

I have read some where that they are slowly being phased out.

[rhubarbe]

At the consumer end of the market they are being replaced by DVD (for the Plug 'n' Play (and curse when it goes wrong) type.

HDD is popular but IMHO will be phased out in favour of solid state memory stick/SDHC card cams ever more rapidly as the cost of solid sate media drops.

[redsox_mark]

It is clear that there is more focus on, and more choice with AVCHD models over HDV, and I'd expect that to continue.

Though there never have been many "pure consumer" HDV models. Since Sony had the HC1, and Canon the HV10, each of Sony and Canon have had 1 or 2 models. That's still the case. Panasonic never did HDV; JVC did but only for prosumer models.
Sony and Canon continue to have a number of prosumer/pro HDV models as well; e.g. Sony FX1, FX7.

So, rather than HDV being phased out, it's more like HD is taking off; and AVCHD is the format taking off with it (for consumers). HDV continues more or less as it is, though we may see it dropped sometime in the future (for consumer models at least; for prosumer models I think it will last longer).

[MartinImber]

Well hopefully some of these better sensors will appear on them by next year.

I like tapes as they are cheap portable and easy to archive.

Just where do you store all of your AVCHD footage?

[rhubarbe]

On several HDDs.

[chrishull3]

the sony hc-7 and canon hv30 are the only hdv cams now the fx-7 has gone and the fx1 although there are a few around they are not being made.
non tape i wont bother to count.

[redsox_mark]

There is the HC9; though that replaces the HC7, so the point that there aren't many models is still true.

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

There is the HC9; though that replaces the HC7, so the point that there aren't many models is still true.

yes the hc9 is what i meant sony have gone up through the numbers its hard to keep up.

[senu]

In fairness to the AVCHD models, currently achievable video quality is rather very good ,stellar even.

There is a fundamental problem with all Hi def recording at consumer level which is the handling of motion by intra frame video formats.. HD (Pro) is better than HDV and HDV better than AVCHD ( for motion handling) but the gap is closing.

However, the Pro Semi Pro HDV models are close enough to HD to enable it to be usable for Pro projects.

I get the impression that because of its consumer roots, there has been no move to more AVCHD to get accepted by the Serious enthusiast or Semi Pro aspirants , even though they would happy to use a tapeless medium provided the quality does not suffer. It isn't the medium it is the implementation and output

Tape HDV models will be around ... and maybe eventually disappear but I would still get one for projects which may end up beyond friends and family

For very good domestic/ Type use, the latest AVCHD camcorders will not fail to impress..

It is in trying to promote them that tape is being removed from the spotlight despite no real technological inferiority

Reinforcing a perception that tape is old aged " non digital" technology, pseudo horror stories of difficulty in download to PC, non linear access have been cleverly used by marketing to make tape seem less desirable..It will go, eventually but not for lack of capability

[redsox_mark]

There are pro formats which use solid state media, but they are pricy; e.g the Sony EX3
http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/publi...r=sony_pmw-ex3

[senu]

...But they dont record consumer AVCHD ( as currently implemented)
or HDV..

[redsox_mark]

The EX3 gives a choice of a 35Mb/s High Quality mode or a 25Mb/s, HDV 1080i compatible mode. But no AVCHD, correct.

[senu]

Thanks
..that however seems to reinforce the fact that well implemented HDV is nearer the HD quality the Pros like and can end up in Sky HD programs!
and
JVCs HD7 (HDV on HDD) was a missed opportunity
Watching HDV and AVCHD material off a PS3 HDD of identical scenes, I acknowledge that the mpeg2 files are bigger ( and less efficient for the likes of Bluray) but they are by no means poorer on video quality as some reviews would now have us believe..
Im a little confused when in reviews of the newer AVCHD models, HDV starts getting a slating.
It seems that AVCHD cannot be praised in reviews without HDV getting a knocking..

In the end regardless of format used to record, those who need discerning quality will chose whichever meets their need

In one of the reviews Chrishull had linked to in an earlier thread, A Pro using Sonys Z1 liked the SR 12 but wouldn't reach for it ( instead of his Z1) for any serious work expect as a B roll for short cutaways , or for family video snapshots

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by senu

Thanks
..that however seems to reinforce the fact that well implemented HDV is nearer the HD quality the Pros like and can end up in Sky HD programs!
and
JVCs HD7 (HDV on HDD) was a missed opportunity
Watching HDV and AVCHD material off a PS3 HDD of identical scenes, I acknowledge that the mpeg2 files are bigger ( and less efficient for the likes of Bluray) but they are by no means poorer on video quality as some reviews would now have us believe..
Im a little confused when in reviews of the newer AVCHD models, HDV starts getting a slating.
It seems that AVCHD cannot be praised in reviews without HDV getting a knocking..

In the end regardless of format used to record, those who need discerning quality will chose whichever meets their need

In one of the reviews Chrishull had linked to in an earlier thread, A Pro using Sonys Z1 liked the SR 12 but wouldn't reach for it ( instead of his Z1) for any serious work expect as a B roll for short cutaways , or for family video snapshots

if i had the money and was not going through one of my stages [when i lose interest a bit ie vhc period,svhc revived me for a while then tailed off until mini dv then that started going until hdv, now thats going]i would get a sony z7 and a sr12,the z7 is a great pro cam the sr12 takes video as good if not better than any consumer cam,the z7 is big too big for other than pro work nice to own one though.

[MartinImber]

I don't understand the dislike of tapes for cameras as far as I see it

Recording off TV Hard Disk PVRs

Permanent copies, multiple pass well done compressed video on optical disc.

Camera - a good tape format

[redsox_mark]

I agree that there is nothing wrong with tape. I think there are many reasons why many want non-tape formats; some more logical than others.

The logical ones:

- Most people don't edit. Non-tape models are easier to find the clips you want and copy them.
- Fast transfer time to PC.
- Smaller and lighter (especially flash memory models)
- Long shooting time (especially HDD)
- Sometimes there can be problems capturing video; firewire ports fail on camcorders.

The not so logical ones

- Don't have to buy media (not so logical, as you still need to back it up to something).
- Some simply associate tape with old technology, e.g. like VHS tape; audio casettes....
- Fear of buying something that is on the way out

[MartinImber]

I think it is also because I have always used tape - started with a Sony HVC4000P and SL-F1UB, and most of the tapes are still in good condition.

I always tended to shoot too much and edit down.