Sanyo VPC-HD1000 Thread - worth buying?

Solidstate · 18-03-2008, 1:29 PM

Now that I've sold on my Panasonic HDC-SD9 - I am again looking for the smallest decent-quality HD camera that I can get prior to my 14 day European cruise in June. I have a very strong preference towards a vertical type camera.

I bought the SD9 because I thought that I was prepared to put up with a larger handy cam style camera if the image quality was worth it - as it was the SD9 wasn't "all that" when it came down to the video quality. It didn't blow my socks off and it didn't seem like amazing value when it appears that the Canon HF100 will produce a better picture for similar money and approx the same size chassis.

I am however still on the lookout for a tiny HiDef camera - the Sanyo VPC-HD1000 has some nice features (overall size, vertical layout, decent photo mode and in built editing functions - including joining clips together) - but video quality seems a bit hit and miss according to most reviews. Are the reviews being too picky, given that this camera can be imported for approx £350 from ebay? Most of my footage will be shot outdoors so low light performance is not really a concern to me. I am prepared to compromised on image quality (a bit) for the convienience of something I can slip in my pocket.

Also what do you think the chances are of someone bringing out another camera before June (a new improved Xacti?) or have we now seen all 2008's models?

Solidstate · 18-03-2008, 1:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lui-g

Oh joy...

According to Akihabaranews.com, there's a new Xacti camera from Sanyo.
"More on this tomorrow..."
http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news...s.php?id=15702

I sure hope it's not a replacement for the HD1000 or even an improvement, otherwise I'll never buy a camera. I nearly ordered the HD1000 yesterday.

I'll now have to see what this is, to see if it bridges the gap closer to the Canon HF10/HF100.

I'll report tomorrow.

Just seen this from the Canon thread - thanks Lui - it looks like my prayers might have been answered - watch this space....

EDIT - Nope - its just another 640x480 basic family cam called the Xacti CG9. Back to square one then.

rhubarbe · 19-03-2008, 9:55 AM

I see that the Akihabara boys are having a lie-in after a night out on the sake.

I don't think what you want exists, Solid.

I have looked for cheapo upright cams that do nothing right except film in low light - drew a blank.

What was needed was an upright version of the SD9 but Pana didn't even release one of those in Nippon, let alone here in DSG Treasure Island.

Why don't you try an SD7?

Solidstate · 19-03-2008, 12:29 PM

I've looked at the SD7 long and hard - but I can't help but feel that it misses the mark on too many things for me.

Its just a bit too big to fit into a trouser pocket. I'll have to deinterlace the video to edit it (and I'm still having difficulties with last years Canon HV10 1920x1080i footage - thats a long boring story). I like the idea of being able to delete/sort/combine clips together inside the Xacti and then play them back as one long clip - cutting out the computer editing step - until the editing software catches up with the technology and can edit .h264 as easily a I could edit DV before.

I'm sure if I already had a SD7 I'd be happy with it - but it feels a bit wrong going and buying a brand new one now when they have already been out for a good while - are pretty much being abandoned by Panasonic and they aren't that cheap.

My ideal camera would be an Xacti style/size camera that could do 1280x720 with a decent optical image stabiliser, a 10x zoom and pin sharp image quality. I don't really need 1920x1080 as I don't believe that it makes sense in a consumer camera - the data rate for editing is excessive and the small lenses can't do it justice.

It would be nice to hear from someone with an HD1000 to see if they would honestly recommend one.

rhubarbe · 19-03-2008, 12:34 PM

Yes, it would indeed.

rhubarbe · 19-03-2008, 12:51 PM

I think at some point somebody has to buy one to try it out and I really think I have bought my fair share already.

DigitalRev?

Solidstate · 19-03-2008, 12:55 PM

If you can convince me that there is no chance of a more appropriate camera coming out before June then I'll import one from HK. The money is burning a hole in my paypal account.

rhubarbe · 19-03-2008, 12:58 PM

Have a look at this site.

http://www.simplyelectronics.net/mai...QSU1Aodk2l--Q&

£369...

I do not know of any upright coming out but I do not have access to the secrets of the inner sancti...

Solidstate · 19-03-2008, 1:05 PM

That's a good price.

I was just looking at this ebay seller (this is a sold item - but they relist it every day).
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=130205006387
It looks like it might miss out on Customs, but it's a gamble.

Are 'Simply Electronics' decent people?

rhubarbe · 19-03-2008, 1:10 PM

Don't know, never used them.. As you know, I usually buy from Germany but what with the Euro I am keeping my hands in my pockets for a bit.

rhubarbe · 19-03-2008, 4:32 PM

Have you seen that clip of the goldfish in the pond with waterlilies? Only plays at 58.8fps even in Nero Showtime 4.

Oh dear.

Solidstate · 19-03-2008, 9:12 PM

Not too sure what clip you are watching there or what you mean - is it that your PC is too slow or the clip is bad?

I've been watching the test recordings from the review of the HD1000 on the Popcorn... http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/revi...MX-HD1000.html
- and from what I can make out from these brief poorly shot clips - the video looks good enough for what I need it for. I think I might give one a go, I'll wait a while longer and if nothing else seems like its worth getting I'll get myself an HD1000 before my next holiday, with the intention of replacing it as soon as something better comes along (probably in 2009).

I'm determined not to jump in with both feet like I did when I got the SD9 - I'll try and bide my time and hope for an HD1000 bargain.

I still can't believe that there is no one on these forums with first hand knowledge of this camera - then again I'm pretty sure they would advise me not to get one and then I'd be totally stuck as to what to buy instead.

rhubarbe · 19-03-2008, 9:44 PM

What did you find that you didn't like about the HV10?

Solidstate · 19-03-2008, 10:09 PM

The main problem with the HV10 was that it was a bit too heavy to put in a case threaded onto my belt. I also found the handling weird as it looked like a vertical camera but in reality you didn't hold it like a gun - instead the hand kind of went diagonal across the body through a strap. I also had a nightmare getting the video to deinterlace and remain jerk free after editing it on my Mac. It was a US model and my Mac is rather slow - so everything combined made it impossible to watch the edited movie in the quality it was originally shot in.

I also compare everything to my beloved Sony DCR-IP1 - for me this camera had perfect handling - the ideal size, an excellent steady optical stabiliser, nice smooth zoom and an easy to use touch screen interface. The only downside is that the video isn't good enough to blow up on a modern 46" tv. If they made a HD version of this, I'd buy it today - although nowadays it could be a bit thinner.

In case you have never seen a DCR-IP1 - I've just taken a few shots of mine these are attached below.

slowpoke · 19-03-2008, 10:50 PM

I think I may try this out if I can get it relativey cheap on a certain auction ite

chrishull3 · 20-03-2008, 8:10 AM

this cam did get a very good review with camcorder buyer including 5* picture.

rhubarbe · 20-03-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solidstate

In case you have never seen a DCR-IP1 - I've just taken a few shots of mine these are attached below.

I was indeed considering searching for one of those only a matter of a month ago.

One went on ebay recently for £220:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=150222450055

What was it like in low light?

Solidstate · 20-03-2008, 12:08 PM

I was very happy with its all round performance. I never really tested out the low light performance to breaking point - but all my interior footage is perfectly watchable.

Then again I've never really had any problems with any of my cameras' low light performance, perhaps I'm easy to please - or everyone else is expecting miracles.
To be honest though - I wouldn't recommend getting a DCR-IP1 now, the video quality just doesn't hold up nowadays, but they are still a beautiful piece of miniaturised technology. When I first got it people found it amazing that I could record an hour of footage on a tape the size of a dictaphone cassette.

Solidstate · 20-03-2008, 1:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowpoke

I think I may try this out if I can get it relativey cheap on a certain auction site

electronicmegastore on that certain site are now doing it for £349.99 delivered and they ship from the UK so no chance of customs (they have 50 in stock) . I think I'll wait until after the Easter break and then give them a go.

slowpoke · 21-03-2008, 4:46 PM

Steves digicams have given it a decent review and there is quite good feedback on the message board over there. The main advantage is that it really really fits in your pocket and the output is easier to edit apparently. I think with the price differenece to the SD9 I think it could be the one.

herbs · 22-03-2008, 12:13 AM

I am/was interested in this model so I popped down to jessops with a 1GB SD card and did some filming, I was quite impressed with the few minutes I played with it. So if you live near a jessops it might be the way to goto see if it fits your needs.
But to be truthful I'm not that bothered about absolute image quality or colour, my father has the panasonic sd1 and it was not as good as that in picture quality. I believe solidstate and I have the same issue, we want something to fit in our pocket that can be used for filming. I'm still undecided over the HD700 or the HD1000. I have a cg65 and not sure a HD700 is a big enough jump in quality to justify £260, but the hd1000 is a big jump in physicalsize to the cg65.

Solidstate · 22-03-2008, 12:33 AM

Well I've took the plunge and ordered one from Ebay (a silver one for £349.99 delivered).

I'll let you know what I think of it when it arrives.

To be honest I'm not going to be too critical of the picture - I realise that top quality video now requires compromises in size and form factor that I'm not prepared to go along with. I had enough money put aside for a Canon HF100 - but if I have to put a camera in a ruck sack or a bag I know that I'll end up taking a lot less video and it'll seem like a chore to carry with me. I don't want the camera to rule my holiday ....... "hold on, stop a second and let me get the camcorder out".

I find that HD video requires a lot of careful shot composition - the days of swinging a camera around like a lunatic and zooming in and out are long gone for me. Given this, I think that pretty much any camera should be capable of filming some nice static shots of scenery - so I don't think the HD1000 can let me down. As long as the video fills my TV screen and doesn't look like crap then I'll be happy enough.

I'm think this is the camera for the kind of person who also uses a Digital Compact Camera rather than a D-SLR - its really a trade off between image quality and size.

P.S - Now I've ordered you can expect an updated model to be announced at any moment.

daggad · 22-03-2008, 1:16 AM

My personal experiences with the SD9 are sort of different of what I expected after reading reviews.
Some points:
1) The panning and zooming "problems" are really not there as far as I can see. The camcorder handles this without any problem. Yes it is noticable on my computer, but not when played back on my hdtv.
2) Low light performance worse than I hoped it would be. But I am picky..
3) I think the white balance is not good. Skintones seem to be too smooth. Or even over saturated.
4) Sharpness: And this is the big issue with HD footage. If you film furry animals, flowers, zoomed in buildings or other details; Fantastic ! BUT...people, faces, strong colours, snow, contrasts..not so good anymore.
5) The face detection is great ! Automatic contrast as well for giving better pictures.
6) Still pictures...forget it !

But as I've stated: I am picky, and always looking for the faults in my movies...

Solidstate · 22-03-2008, 8:38 AM

Daggad, are your comments about the HD1000 or the SD9?

slowpoke · 22-03-2008, 9:11 AM

I was thinking the same thing, when is the next model coming out??

Solidstate · 22-03-2008, 11:39 AM

No one knows about an update - which is why I ordered mine now. I was just joking that its sods law that the day after you order something, the new model normally gets announced.

Given that Sanyo have only just updated their site with the new cheapo Xacti model (and at the same time took the "new" markers off the HD700 and HD1000) - I am guessing that it will be a few months before anything new is announced again (fingers crossed) - If they were refreshing other Xacti models soon I think they would have waited until they were all ready to save having to update the website twice in short succession.

At least with it only costing £350 I can use it this year and then if anything new comes out later in the year that is a major improvement, I can sell it off on Ebay for probably £275 and upgrade again. £75 to video one holiday isn't too great a cost. I remember being a child and having to pay £20 (of early 1980s money) to film 3.5 mins of silent super 8 footage - so it should all be put in perspective.

slowpoke · 22-03-2008, 8:26 PM

Makes sense Solid, can you give us a review when you get the camera?

Solidstate · 22-03-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowpoke

Makes sense Solid, can you give us a review when you get the camera?

Of course - I'd love to. As soon as I have a proper opinion and a few day's experience with it I'll report back here.

bledd · 23-03-2008, 5:37 PM

Bit late seeing this thread but I bought a hd1000 in November last year.
Took it skiing with me in December and i was amazed at the quality of the footage that came out of it, not the quickest at focus lock in low light conditions indoors but not mutch of an issue, The size is great fits in the pocket and great to use, one of the best pieces of electronics I've bought in years.

Bledd

rhubarbe · 23-03-2008, 6:37 PM

Do you have any footage on an upload site we could take a gander at?