[nickdc]

I teach Media Studies in a secondary school and double up as an AV technician! We're running into a problem that's completely foxed me. After several years of relatively trouble-free practical work making short videos with mini-dv camcorders and WinXP desktops, we've had six out of eight camcorders lose their dv/firewire connectivity in the space of a few weeks (just when students are running up against deadlines and can't afford to lose time - we need an urgent solution!) The cameras are mostly Canon MD101 but we have two older Sonys (TRV-22E and one even older) which have both lost firewire too. At first I suspected rough handling or faulty cameras, but now with the sixth one (which for various reasons has had v little use) going off, I'm having my doubts. Close inspection of the firewire sockets reveals little wear and tear, no obvious loosening etc. I've brought two of the camcorders home to check on my own setup with my own cables and confirm they are not recognised by Windows. The only common factor is that we moved classrooms at the start of this academic year, to an IT room with new, higher spec machines, and it's since working on these that the problem has arisen. Our IT boss says it cannot be related to the computer hardware or software, but I'm still wondering whether something has interacted to damage or disable the firewire functionality on these cameras. This afternoon a colleague brought the little-used camera into use, and it captured fine for two or three sections of tape. The students disconnected it for a while, then when they reconnected again - zilch! This is one of the ones I've brought home and can confirm firewire functionality is gone. If anyone who has a good knowledge of the hardware/software design of the firewire on these sorts of camera can throw any suggestions my way I'd be immensely grateful.

[achoudry]

this issue can be a result of using certain software from what i've read of other people having similar problems. have you installed any software recently that could have caused this problem. i'm assuming this isn't the case if you have checked on several pc's including your own at home but worth a mention.

also, if you are running xp, you could try getting sp2 to see if there are any updates that might resolve your issues.

furthermore, have you tried picking up the camcorder via different video editing software? even though it might not get picked up as an additional device by windows when you connect the camcorder via firewire, some software may recognise it. if you find some software will recognise your connected camcorder, then you know it's probably not a hardware problem.

another thing you could try is disabling the firewire device and then turning off the pc, removing the card and putting it in a different slot, restarting pc to find the drivers again and then seeing if it works.

finally you could restart your pc with the camcorder plugged in to try and force the pc to recognise it.

just a few suggestions. if i think of anything else, i'll let you know.

[achoudry]

also, do you have any software that came with the camcorders? you could try installing and see if that helps.

[nickdc]

Thanks for these comments and suggestions. Will try some out tomorrow, though the fact that I get no joy on my own system at home suggests something awry in the camcorder rather than the pc. Still, anything is worth trying.

[redsox_mark]

The only common factor is that we moved classrooms at the start of this academic year, to an IT room

My guess is it is the room. Does it have carpet?

Firewire connections are very sensitive to static electricity. It is safest to connect to the PC first, then the camcorder, and even safer if the camcorder is off when you connect, otherwise static electricity can easily zap the firewire ports.

[senu]

It has to be the room.. ( or maybe something in it ) but what exactly?
With all due respect to Mark I have used firewire connections in many a carpeted place without any mishap.. maybe Ive been lucky

Im rather less willing to believe it isnt the new computers. what stops them ( especially if they are from the same source) from being from a batch of motherboards with rogue on-board firewire which is killing the camcorders
The camcorders are not new, and this is happening to more than one .. too much of a coincidence
Unless you can demonstrate that these new PCs will not kill a camcorders firewire port in another room, or that the older PCs ( or a laptop) now placed in the "new" room have become lethal to firewire ports, I do not accept your IT bosses statement.
If there is software which is "curropting" the hardware ports it , that may be more difficult to pin down but it will still localise the fault to the new PCs , not the room

I would suggest at the very least using the camcorders with the older PCs in the new room.. if there is no problem, then you can safely say the room is "safe"

[Jollyjimbo]

I went to edit some footage the other day there and my Firewire connection isn't working now either.

After checking the net for answers and trying a number of changes, my PC doesn't see my camcorder. I just thought it was my camera finally biting the dust but perhaps not.

Is it possible that Microsoft might have something to do with it as there have been a few updates since I last used the firewire connection.

[senu]

Originally Posted by Jollyjimbo

I went to edit some footage the other day there and my Firewire connection isn't working now either.

After checking the net for answers and trying a number of changes, my PC doesn't see my camcorder. I just thought it was my camera finally biting the dust but perhaps not.

Is it possible that Microsoft might have something to do with it as there have been a few updates since I last used the firewire connection.

I would assume you refer to this same room. If you have say a laptop, why not try it in the room ( ie not with the new PCs)

[Jollyjimbo]

Originally Posted by senu

I would assume you refer to this same room. If you have say a laptop, why not try it in the room ( ie not with the new PCs)

Hi senu, sorry you've picked me up wrong. I just happen to have the same problem as nickdc. My setup was working fine a few weeks ago and now nothing happens when I connect my camera.

Like nickdc, my camera is in very good condition, I take great care with it, my DV out connection is pretty much minted looking and shows almost no signs of wear but its it is no longer detected with XP Pro.

I'm still using all the same software and the only change/update to the PC since it last worked is a Microsoft update or 2. I was just wondering if this might be a reason.

[senu]

Originally Posted by Jollyjimbo

Hi senu, sorry you've picked me up wrong. I just happen to have the same problem as nickdc. My setup was working fine a few weeks ago and now nothing happens when I connect my camera.

Like nickdc, my camera is in very good condition, I take great care with it, my DV out connection is pretty much minted looking and shows almost no signs of wear but its it is no longer detected with XP Pro.

I'm still using all the same software and the only change/update to the PC since it last worked is a Microsoft update or 2. I was just wondering if this might be a reason.

Aha same problem different reason.
Your problem may well be due to Bill Gates friendly "updates"
Sometimes if it aint broke dont fix it .. is a truism especially for kit like PCs for Editing ect
In your case if it works elsewhere then you have the answer but it is very rare indeed for your camcorders firewire to be "killed" by software and you can uninstall updates , or use system restore.
If so, turn off "automatic" updates and give yourself the chance to not accept , or uninstall them before the "lock you out" or Microsoft are not in a hurry to find a fix..

[achoudry]

after a quick scan on google, a few people have noted that this problem is quite common with xp sp2. they don't know quite what but something in sp2 has caused this to be a problem with some camcorders...TRV-22E being a common one. the people who have narrowed it down to sp2 have had to rebuild there pc's because uninstalling doesn't seem to get rid of the problem. i would only try this, to save you rebuilding your pc, if nothing else works. it's not a huge task though...just get xp sp1 to find out if the camcorders will be recognised with it. better still, if you can find someone who is still running sp1 then just connect it to their pc.

some people have mentioned that it could be the firewire port. a quick way to test this would be to attach another firewire device...perhaps an external hard drive, and see if that is recognised.

it's a process of elimination unfortunately and the above two suggestions may help.

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by senu

With all due respect to Mark I have used firewire connections in many a carpeted place without any mishap.. maybe Ive been lucky

So have I (though I am careful). It is just a theory. But if something in that room (like the type of carpet) is worse than the old room in terms of static electricity, it is a real possiblity. There is a reason why (quoting Sony):

"Connect the i.LINK cable to the computer first, then to your camcorder. Connecting in the opposite order may cause static electricity to build up, resulting in a malfunction of your camcorder".

And I know of many people who have had their camcorder firewire ports damaged in this way.

[Jollyjimbo]

Originally Posted by achoudry

after a quick scan on google, a few people have noted that this problem is quite common with xp sp2. they don't know quite what but something in sp2 has caused this to be a problem with some camcorders...TRV-22E being a common one. the people who have narrowed it down to sp2 have had to rebuild there pc's because uninstalling doesn't seem to get rid of the problem. i would only try this, to save you rebuilding your pc, if nothing else works. it's not a huge task though...just get xp sp1 to find out if the camcorders will be recognised with it. better still, if you can find someone who is still running sp1 then just connect it to their pc.

I tried returning the Firewire port to SP1 setting but with no luck. There are seemingly only 2 files that need to be returned to SP1 but it didn't work for me.

I am hopefully getting a loan of a friends camcorder over the weekend to try on my machine and I am also taking my camera down to a friends house this afternoon to see if it is "seen" by his PC.

As you say, process of elimination unfortunately.

[senu]

Sadly camcorder firewire ports do get zapped but you can only ascertain that by elimination

[glesgaguyav]

There is a danger that firewire ports can be "fried" with some computer setups, also I have heard that there is a danger, if there is a large ammount of computers in one area, of "neutral fry ups", this is an electrical installation problem but can damage computer systems or devices, the 240v wiring should be checked by an Electrician.

[nickdc]

Thanks for all the replies so far - you've confirmed there clearly is an issue here, that others have experienced too, and which no-one has yet got to the bottom of. I find redsox's quote from Sony interesting - that's a new one on me, and we haven't trained the students to connect in any particular sequence. Could another factor affecting static be the monitors? We've gone to bigger screens with this upgrade - do LCDs create static, and more of it, the bigger the screen?

Two of the cameras are being looked at by some electronics engineers today, so I may have more info by Monday. In the meantime, please keep the suggestions coming.