sony or canon

[seriman]

Hi
I need a camcorder and did not realise that there are so many options:-
tape,mini disc,hdd and memory stick.
Next there is SD or HD.
Followed by make and model.
I am restricted on price as i wont use alot approx £400
not worried about night vision.
I have limited between Sony and Canon.
I think that after scouring the forum I will stick with SD and HDD as I dont want to carry tapes or discs around,and spend that money on a spare
battery if needed.
Some models i like
Sony dcr-sr72 £330 at my local tesco store.
Sony dcr-sr190 £410 at Laskys
As for Canon I can,t find any hdd models in sd.
What do you think of my choices or can you steer me in the right
direction.
All your help will be gratefully received.
Many Thanks

[senu]

The Sony SR 190 seems the one to go for. Cheaper models may prove dissapoining and Canon has no SD HDD models

[rabrose]

Originally Posted by seriman

Hi
I need a camcorder and did not realise that there are so many options:-
tape,mini disc,hdd and memory stick.
Next there is SD or HD.
Followed by make and model.
I am restricted on price as i wont use alot approx £400
not worried about night vision.
I have limited between Sony and Canon.
I think that after scouring the forum I will stick with SD and HDD as I dont want to carry tapes or discs around,and spend that money on a spare
battery if needed.
Some models i like
Sony dcr-sr72 £330 at my local tesco store.
Sony dcr-sr190 £410 at Laskys
As for Canon I can,t find any hdd models in sd.
What do you think of my choices or can you steer me in the right
direction.
All your help will be gratefully received.
Many Thanks

I wouldn`t have another Canon even at half price. I purchased a Canon 600i less than 3 years ago. It broke down on a number of occasions and the last last time it broke (tape compartment wouldn`t open) I was told by Canon that the repair would cost £180 + Postage. Adding that amount to the money I had already paid in repairs it came to over £300. Their customer service and complaints department didn`t want to know.

My advice is to steer well away from Canon. I`ve have never had a problem with any Sony product I have purchased.

[senu]

Originally Posted by rabrose

I wouldn`t have another Canon even at half price. I purchased a Canon 600i less than 3 years ago. It broke down on a number of occasions and the last last time it broke (tape compartment wouldn`t open) I was told by Canon that the repair would cost £180 + Postage. Adding that amount to the money I had already paid in repairs it came to over £300. Their customer service and complaints department didn`t want to know.

My advice is to steer well away from Canon. I`ve have never had a problem with any Sony product I have purchased.

You were unlucky.
Although I have 3( or 4) very good Sony camcorders, too, I recently trailled the Canon HG10 and was well impressed with it.
Although the HV20 build quality is a bit naff it is actually a good camcorder. I have used and been impressed with the XM2 and XL1S , and own the Canon DSLR 350D and 30D.
Some budget Canon camcorders were said to have "motor noise" but yet more are OK.
As such Im not brand loyal and some of Canons High end Prosumer/Semi pro kit is simply mouthwatering

I think each piece of kit should be taken on its own merits and brand should come second as they all make great kit , and also some QC rejects.
Sony kit too does go pear shaped and their ( higher) prices cannot always be justified

In relation to this thread it is moot anyway as Canon have no SD HDD models and for Sony it is a one horse race

[rhubarbe]

At risk of inflaming certain parties, why do you want HDD? Have you considered SDHC card models?

I like the Panasonic SDR-S150. Carry it in your pocket and produces video every bit as good as the Sony HDD cams you are considering. Nearly five hours video at standard mpeg2 quality on a single 16GB (£40) SDHC card.

Magic.

[senu]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe View Post
At risk of inflaming certain parties, why do you want HDD? Have you considered SDHC card models?

I like the Panasonic SDR-S150. Carry it in your pocket and produces video every bit as good as the Sony HDD cams you are considering. Nearly five hours video at standard mpeg2 quality on a single 16GB (£40) SDHC card.

Magic.

I dont think the OP minds .. as long as it isnt tape
I would say that although HDDs are mechanical and can fail catastrophically, the actual incidence compared to the no in use out there is very low indeed.
Even if you avoid them for camcorders, consider the no of PCs. laptops, Ipods, Archos type devices.which use them...
Also rare but by no means unheard of is corrupt flash cards.. . This may be related to dodgy cards but sometimes they are bought in good faith as genuine items.
A lot of DSLR? Digital still owners know about them and the existence of data recovery software is a pointer to the possibility of lost data on cards

Im not sure anyone is "inflamed" but the choices in the various formats mean they tend to make only a handful of models supporting any one or other and as folk tend to identify with what they own ( a bit sad really..) nobody likes to be told theyve made the wrong choice

But if the price is right, I would similarly suggest the OP give card models a good look too

PS: I had 2 HDDs go up in flames with 640Gb worth of data just over 13 months ago , and My very first Settop DVD recorder ( A £800 Panasonic HS2) died just outside warrantee ( 14 months) because built in its 40Gb HDD failed.. But I just chalk it down to experieince and bad luck

[rhubarbe]

I think that data loss on cards takes two forms:

1 Dodgy card recognised as not working when you insert it, so no loss of footage.

2 Folk trying to remove card while the little red light is flashing, so user error.

[senu]

I would agree , those are common causes but if you ask retailers who get some card returns, some dodgy cards may not always flag up as being dodgy, and some may start off OK but fail in use. I know that for a fact as in the past Ive had to chuck some in the bin and replace them as getting a replacement off the retailers was too much hassle..
The SmartMedia cards of old were very notorious for this but current cards are more reliable although not infallible

Similarly It may be argued that HDDs ( in camcorders) fail because the camcorder owners do not treat them with the care they deserve as delicate electromechanical devices. Although I would suggest that good shock proving should be a mandatory requirement
FWIW I dont mind any of them as long as durability and good quality are accounted for

[rhubarbe]

I've only had one HDD cam, bought it from lurcher, and it worked fine. I gave it to my dad - I don't know what happened to it after that..

I have had several SDHC card cams and have never had a problem with nay of them.

I've had a few tape cams, too, come to that.

[senu]

Everyman has a right to an addiction , sir
yours just happens to be video capturing devices!

( Says with man with 1 OR 3 himself)

[videoman]

Is it not still the casae that tape gives the best picture quality?

[rhubarbe]

Yes, all other things being equal.

@ senu: I feel a camcorder buying feeling coming on..... must....resist...

[senu]

Originally Posted by videoman

Is it not still the casae that tape gives the best picture quality?

Yes
but the real time transfer with firewire, the non linear access and the large amounts of HDD space needed for DV and HDV have been used by the marketing gurus to "outmode" tape
Also to some, tape does not seem "digital" and comparisons of VHS vs DVD are made (erroneously)

Tape will not be around for ever and folk are put off by the spectre of snagged tapes, dirty tape heads and dodgy tape head mechanisms as well as motor noise pickup and a pile of unedited tapes ( without any identifying labels) in the study...

If well implemented the newer AVCHD will probably surpass tape quality but wii the camcorders??
But it is quite instructive that although Professional systems are toying with some non tape media, tape is still the mainstay of that sector
For now though for sheer value for money and best quality, all the "disadvantages" of tape pale into significance IMHO

[rhubarbe]

Here's me keeps recommending the HV10, which is pretty stupid of me considering I have been trying to buy a PAL one. I just saw a used HV10 that went on eBay at £380. This time two months ago they went for £300 tops.

Reckon I'll shut up.

There are plenty of folk still looking for HDV cams.

[senu]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

There are plenty of folk still looking for HDV cams.

So it would seem,