High Def - Mini DV or HDD ?

[Jonb2010]

I need help choosing a new camcorder. I've got a Canon MV650i which has died so needs replacing. I really want to go up to HD now they seem to be coming down in price a bit.

I have a lot of tapes of the family etc from my Canon that I either have to be able to play on my new camera, or borrow the father in-laws and copy to a harddrive to render them playable again. Incidentaly how much room would a 60 minute tape take up on a hard drive ?

So I've looked at a few online sites and a brief trip into JL today and spoke to the assistant with the least knowledge. When she told me they don't do HD cameras with tapes anymore I should have just walked away. She then tried to sell me an HDD-SR72 as a high def camera. I even asked her if it was full 1080 and she said "oh yes". Well lesson learnt there I guess.

So cameras that seem to come inside my £600 budget are Sony HDR-HC5E, HDD-SR5 and the Canon HV20.
Cheapest prices I've found are
HDR-HC5E Komplett £499
HDD-SR5 Park Cameras £534
HV20 Dabs £529
I know there are cheaper sellers on Ebay but there are too many grey imports and dodgy sellers on there. Already been ripped off with fake goods as well.

So what are peoples thoughts on these cameras and in particular the HDD over tape ? The HDD is nice in that it is smaller than the tape models but I would rather put up with the size if i meant the quality was much better.

What are the main pro's and cons of HDD and Mini DV ?

If you have any other cameras that may be suitable and in budget then please post. I will mainly be using it for filming the family so a mix of indoor and outdoor. One thing my Canon was very poor at was low light filming so I want something that performs well in dimly lit situations.

Many thanks in advance for reading my post and providing me with your advice.

[glesgaguyav]

Bit biased but I'd go for the HV20 it's backward compatible with your old DV tapes (as long as they are SP and not LP and everthing is in the PAL format)
The quality is excelent and it works as a "point and shoot" cam

[redsox_mark]

how much room would a 60 minute tape take up on a hard drive ?
About 13 GB. Note it is approximately the same for DV and HDV.

So what are peoples thoughts on these cameras and in particular the HDD over tape ?


This point has been widely debated. Part of it depends on how you work, your personal preferences, etc. But there is broad agreement that:
- HDV tape models tend to have slightly better video quality than HDD cams (due to the MPEG2 compression vs. AVCHD/MPEG4). But AVCHD keeps getting better, and the gap is small and shrinking.
- HDV is easier to edit and play than AVCHD. By easier I mean AVCHD needs a faster PC, also the software to edit/play it isn't as available (but that too is changing).
- Tape does make a good archive, that is one advantage of HDV.
- With HDD cams, capture (copy to PC) is much faster. You can also delete clips from the cam, access specific clips quickly. HDV is real time transfer (as is DV).
- Non-tape formats are growing, tape seems slowly "on the way out"... this concerns some people; though I don't see problems getting tapes for many years. Tape is still the primary media for pro/prosumer use.

No consumer camcorder in this price range is great in terms of low light, but the HV20 is one of the best if not the best; especially if you use the 25p progressive mode.

[Jackboy]

Hi

I have found the HDR-HC5e on Amazon for £400.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-HDR-HC5...4048916&sr=8-1

Was thinking of getting this myself, price seems very good,is being by Amazon themselves so I am assuming no risk.

Paul

[redsox_mark]

At that price the HC5 is excellent value.

[Jonb2010]

Originally Posted by Jackboy

Hi

I have found the HDR-HC5e on Amazon for £400.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-HDR-HC5...4048916&sr=8-1

Was thinking of getting this myself, price seems very good,is being by Amazon themselves so I am assuming no risk.

Paul

Wow that just blows away all the others for cost, and as it is direct from Amazon like you say, then no risk at all.

£130 cheaper than the HV20. Is the HV20 that much better ? What am I losing out on with the HC5?

[senu]

Originally Posted by Jonb2010

Wow that just blows away all the others for cost, and as it is direct from Amazon like you say, then no risk at all.

£130 cheaper than the HV20. Is the HV20 that much better ? What am I losing out on with the HC5?

Not much but I would spent the £120.. it is a one off for
Mic jack
Headphone
25p
Av in

If all these things absolutely nothing save your pennies ....But Sony HC7 ( which is marginally better than the HC5) is just about at par with the HV 20

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by senu

Not much but I would spent the £120.. it is a one off for
Mic jack
Headphone
25p
Av in

If all these things absolutely nothing save your pennies ....But Sony HC7 ( which is marginally better than the HC5) is just about at par with the HV 20

but have you seen any test or read from owners of both that the hc7 is close to hv20 picture wise.i have not used a hv20 so am only going by imformation from others.but like the hc1 the hc 5 and 7 are more solid i think.

[JustinL]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

but have you seen any test or read from owners of both that the hc7 is close to hv20 picture wise.i have not used a hv20 so am only going by imformation from others.but like the hc1 the hc 5 and 7 are more solid i think.

I believe for the price the HV20 is believed by most users/reviewers to have the best picture quality. Also apparently (I'm sure Senu can comment on this) Sony's Hi-Def codecs are not as compatible as either Canon's or Panasonics with 3rd party software. Also for some reason they don't seem to be allowing proper reviews of their newer cams unless it is done by a gadget mag. For me they want total control and for these reasons I wouldn't buy a Sony at the moment.

The HG 10 is the HDD based model of the HV20 and has good reviews, with the HF10 and 100 due next month there will be plenty of choice.

Personally I will be looking at the Canon HG10, HF10/100 and the Panasonic SD9 however I can afford to wait. I was tempted to go for the HV20 however I wouldn't go for a tape format anymore even if it is still being supported.

[Tatra-Man]

Bite the bullet and go for the full HD (1080p) Panasonic HS9 for hard drive and SDHC card or the SD9 to save cash and go SDHC only.

My current unit is the Mini-DV Panasonic EX3 and I've ordered an HS9.

[JustinL]

Originally Posted by Tatra-Man

Bite the bullet and go for the full HD (1080p) Panasonic HS9 for hard drive and SDHC card or the SD9 to save cash and go SDHC only.

My current unit is the Mini-DV Panasonic EX3 and I've ordered an HS9.

agreed, both of the new canons, ie HF10/100 and the Panasonic SD5/9 are full HD not sure about the new Sony's but seeing they haven't been reviewed yet properly.....

[senu]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

but have you seen any test or read from owners of both that the hc7 is close to hv20 picture wise.

Yes camcorderinfo is a good start.
Ive used the HV 20 and had the HC7 for a few days (Have a few tapes with footage from it) and i would say they really aren't different in quality. If anything , with the right settings footage from either can be made to look "identical"
Felix 2 ( on here) does have the HC7

.but like the hc1 the hc 5 and 7 are more solid i think.

The Build quality on the Sony's "seems" better but this is a comparative description. If you owned the Canon and had never seen a Sony I doubt that you'd worry about its build

[Tatra-Man]

Originally Posted by JustinL

agreed, both of the new canons, ie HF10/100 and the Panasonic SD5/9 are full HD not sure about the new Sony's but seeing they haven't been reviewed yet properly.....

Don't know about the Canons but isn't the SD5 a 1080i machine not a full 1080p like the HS9 and SD9?

[senu]

Having used 1 or 3 Semi Pro/Pro spec 1080i HDV camcorders and having a (?Higher end Prosumer,aspring pro) Sony FX1, Ill be very surprised if the "full HD" 1080p consumer camcorders set the world alight
Admittedly some of my footage is watched via a 46" 1080p Samsung display, and a 1080i Projector ( 40 feet)
My point is that I would not let the 1080i /1080p be a decider as camcorders costing £5000 doing 1080i cannot be unworthy of thier cost ..
Even footage from the SD Sony VX2100 upscaled by these displays is a joy to watch and many of the Sky HD/ BBC HD broadcasts are 1080i and don't seem second rate compared to 1080p .
Unless you want to find it, many 1080i BluRay Video discs are not "inferior" to their 1080p brethren

Certainly if you want and can get 1080p "full HD" go for it by all means but I would be a little less dismissive of 1080i

[JustinL]

Originally Posted by Tatra-Man

Don't know about the Canons but isn't the SD5 a 1080i machine not a full 1080p like the HS9 and SD9?

I believe it's a 1980x1080 resolution, the SD1 was 1440 ie 1080i