[leehal]

Hello all,

I have been trawling through the forum and doing lots of research online and I suppose I am wanting some up to date information. I intend to use the camcorder for hiking and concerts.

I am looking for a camcorder with the following properties :-

Small

Compact

Lightweight

Battery life/recording of over 90 minutes

Decent picture in low light conditions

Price maximum £600

Thanks in advance

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by leehal

Hello all,

I have been trawling through the forum and doing lots of research online and I suppose I am wanting some up to date information. I intend to use the camcorder for hiking and concerts.

I am looking for a camcorder with the following properties :-

Small

Compact

Lightweight

Battery life/recording of over 90 minutes

Decent picture in low light conditions

Price maximum £600

Thanks in advance

not sure its small enough [should be they can be too small]but as a sony man i hate to say to you but i would get the canon hv20.it out performs any hdd or flash type cam,no current flash cam records 1920X1080i the chip resolution may but not the recordings.i realy dont like small cams as you still need a tripod monopod anyway unless shaky footage is no concern,but for carrying around much easier of course.

[senu]

They are all lightweight
and generally small although Small is a matter of degree and most are not pocketable
Compact and small are the same
Besides a bit of bulk on a camcorder is not a bad thing.. too lightwieght and you will struggle to get decent ( none shaky) footage off it
camcorder shake is awful on playback
Most supplied batteries will not last 90mins.. for that you'll need a long life battery usually affordable and available
Decent picture in low light is what every body wants Most camcorders dontlike low light but some are worse than others. Like for like ,The HDD/Flash HI def models struggle the most but each camcorder has to be judges on its own merits..

Which Format are you most keen on Tape HDD or Flash card
Standard Definition or High Definition?
Are you at all interested in editing?

For tape the HV 20 is the current top dog.. (Im also a Sony man BTW) For HDD Hi def the Canon HG 10 isnt perfect but it is ( at that price) the best AVCHD camcorder around

[rhubarbe]

The battery in the HDC-SD5 lasts for 89 minutes. It's not bad in low light if you use the manual settings and change the shutter spped to 1/25th instead of the auto setting of 1/50th.

It's small and under £600.

Records to a tiny SDHC card - 90 minutes on an 8GB card at HG 1920 x 1080i full resolution. 16GB SDHC available round about now.

If you want SD look at the SDR-S150 and take a couple of spare batteries - they weigh about 10g each.

[leehal]

Thanks for the replies, I went for the S150, will buy some spare batteries as suggested.

[leehal]

Quick update.

My SDR-S150 has arrived, very impressed with how small it is, fits nicely into my side pocket when walking and is hardly noticeable.

Only used in the standard setting and picture quality is very good, will keep dabbling over the next few weeks.

[rhubarbe]

I only ever used standard setting. You get 2 hours and 48 minutes on an 8GB SDHC card which can now be had for about £20. One of the new 16GB cards will get you enough to record an average family holiday.

Big HDD cams? Who needs 'em?

[senu]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

Big HDD cams? Who needs 'em?

Hey.. we dont all like our kit dinky and "girly" you know ** ducks for cover**


I do think that flash card recording if properly done ( as it is on Panasonics SD models) is the future and really exciting.
Im less sure about the HD variants though.
Even Pro , SemiPro tapeless ( solid state) , ultrasmall HDD devices are being used for High quality Productions
I do feel though that when making a camcorder small size and lightweight this should be balanced with the need for stability due to the exaggeration of camera shake, ( even with OIS)
Some of the more accomplished mobile phones are competent video camcorders but when you watch the output on a widescreen 40 " Tv the shake becomes unacceptably noticable and not all all attractive
There is no doubt that reasonably handy and portable is an incentive to use the kit more and in some cases simply spontaneously

[rhubarbe]

Senu, I got much more camera shake with my brief interlude with an HDR-HC1e than I ever did with either of my SDR-S150s. Honest.

[senu]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

Senu, I got much more camera shake with my brief interlude with an HDR-HC1e than I ever did with either of my SDR-S150s. Honest.

I believe you, Although a bit unfair as HDV (and AVCHD to a worse extent) greatly magnify shake
but it also explains why in videography, hand held shots should be kept to a minimum unless you've trained yourself to keep really still (err.. like in the Army.. that was me a few years ago!!)
Seriously keeping still and panning slowly is good video technique

I use all sorts of camcorders from time to time and I agree that the huge ones are ache inducing .
I guess it is a matter of what you train yourself to get used to and where the video is heading ( commercial , corporate video should not have any "shake" whatsoever) , but regardless of camcorder size, for proper video, a monopod/tripod should not be far away

[rhubarbe]

Hehe. Camcorder that fits in your back pocket. Tripod that takes up your whole car boot. Right on.

[senu]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

Hehe. Camcorder that fits in your back pocket. Tripod that takes up your whole car boot. Right on.

Well ...and video that is fit to be shown on BBC/ Sky or a 60 ft projected screen
Depends on quality really, I don't know of any pocketable DSLRs .. and folk still buy them loads for the quality of stills

I guess a pocketable camcorder and tripod ( believe it or not there are pocket sized tripods) have their place but as I said earlier it would depend on how and where your video will be viewed ultimately
Im not advocating the industrial kit used by the BBC or the independent filmakers but I guess there is a limit to how small you can get before quality suffers
Tiny lenses, sensors can do only so much

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by senu

Well ...and video that is fit to be shown on BBC/ Sky or a 60 ft projected screen
Depends on quality really, I don't know of any pocketable DSLRs .. and folk still buy them loads for the quality of stills

I guess a pocketable camcorder and tripod ( believe it or not there are pocket sized tripods) have their place but as I said earlier it would depend on how and where your video will be viewed ultimately
Im not advocating the industrial kit used by the BBC or the independent filmakers but I guess there is a limit to how small you can get before quality suffers
Tiny lenses, sensors can do only so much

i agree with you on this,tiny cams and no support not for me,i agree the hc1 is not easy to handhold thats why i used a brace or tripod with mine,even a heavy cam is better with tripods or monopods.for just carrying a tiny cam about i can see the apeal of cam and no luggage though.

[redsox_mark]

Interesting; I find the weight distribution on the HC1 just right, that I feel I can hold that more steady than other cams I've used. But with any cam, there is a limit to how still you can hold it handheld. As we don't always want to travel with tripods or braces of some type, that is a tradeoff we have to make anyway.

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Interesting; I find the weight distribution on the HC1 just right, that I feel I can hold that more steady than other cams I've used. But with any cam, there is a limit to how still you can hold it handheld. As we don't always want to travel with tripods or braces of some type, that is a tradeoff we have to make anyway.

yes the hc1 is the smallest cam i have owned and i cant use one without support BUT i doubt i could any small cam,but even a monopod screwed in and not extended is good support for me held against my chest .

[leehal]

I don't find any camera shake, I have screwed on the little add on to the bottom of the camcorder and it fits nicely into my hand.

I have noticed that the mic picks up the sound of my breathing though

[senu]

Originally Posted by leehal

I don't find any camera shake, I have screwed on the little add on to the bottom of the camcorder and it fits nicely into my hand.

I have noticed that the mic picks up the sound of my breathing though

Good on you..
Camera shake is a fact of life though. If you dont have it now, you will later if most of your shooting is handheld.
The camcorder screens tend to be quite forgiving and playback on a larger screen not as benevolent
Rhubarbe is the man to ask about microphnes and breathing sounds
And motor noise( which you are, thankfully) spared!!

[rhubarbe]

Harrumph!

Heavy breathing tends to cover up the motor noise on MiniDV cams, yes.

Honestly, my SDR-S150 footage played back on a 32" LCD TV exhibits remarkably little camera shake. I can't speak for what it looks like on the camcorder LCD because if I put on my reading specs so I can see the pesky little thing, I fall over.

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

yes the hc1 is the smallest cam i have owned and i cant use one without support BUT i doubt i could any small cam,but even a monopod screwed in and not extended is good support for me held against my chest .

oops forgot the first jvc mini dv 1997 very small,poor not much better than svhsc ,soon got a panasonic dvx100 great cam a bit bigger than the hc1 and hand held shots on mini dv are far better than hdv where the slightest shake shows.