USA purchased camcorders

chubtor · 07-02-2008, 10:39 AM

I am looking for a new hard drive camcorder and am tempted to purchase one on a visit to the USA I am making in the next few weeks. I realise that there may be warranty issues but as I have a daughter over there I can probably overcome that, I also realise that the charger will need to be changed as it will operate on 110V. However are there any technical issues associated with the different recording format to worry about i.e. our TVs are PAL and theirs are NTSC?

If anyone has any experience I would appreciate hearing from them.

I use Roxio Suite 9 for CD/DVD burning and have both XP and Vista on PCs.

redsox_mark · 07-02-2008, 3:35 PM

The charger almost certainly won't be an issue (other than the plug). Every one I've seen takes a full range of 110-250 volts as input.

PAL vs. NTSC is an issue you need to consider. It is less of an issue in High Def vs. Standard def.

In Standard Def, you generally won't be able to play directly from the camcorder to a PAL TV. (well you can, but the picture will be a poor version in black and white). But you can create NTSC DVDs. which will play on most PAL DVD players. Or, you can convert in software and create PAL DVDs.

With High Def, the colour and resolution is the same.. the only difference is the frame rate. A "NTSC" High Def cam will play fine connected to a UK HDTV. If you want to downconvert to SD, see above.

glesgaguyav · 07-02-2008, 5:00 PM

You will also not be able to record directly from PAL equipment (if the camera has AV in) only NTSC, nor will you be able to record directly to PAL equiment, (video or DVD recorders)

chubtor · 07-02-2008, 7:25 PM

Thank you for those informative replies, let me be a bit more specific about the equipment that I have.

First the TV is a Panasonic plasmaTH-42PV500B about 2 years old, cost an arm and a leg so I am not about to change it just yet. On the spec it says "NTSC(AV input only) Playback from NTSC Video recorders."

Next the DVD Recorder is a Panasonic DMR-ES10EB and the recording spec. says "Video in (PAL/NTSC), S-Video in (PAL/NTSC), RGB (PAL).

I also have a HUMAX PVR-9200T which makes no mention of PAL or NTSC.

Finally I have a desktop PC Windows XP and a laptop Windows Vista, one or other will be used for downloading the recordings to as I expect that I will want to make up more professional DVD's from the various recorded video clips that I intend to take on our World Cruise next year. But I know that we will want to preview the raw recordings on the camcorder by connecting it to the TV.

Now that you know my equipment does any of that help in determining if buying a camcorder in the USA is going to cause me a problem. Incidentally the kind of spec I am looking at for a camcorder is the JVC GZ-MG175KE currently on offer at Comet for £250. Other alternative suggestions around that price or $500 US would also be welcome

glesgaguyav · 07-02-2008, 9:11 PM

The equipment, TV/DVD recorder seems to be dual format so you should have no problem using the NTSC cam in your own system, problems may arise if you should ever wish to use the camera in a PAL only enviroment i.e. show/copy.
If you are making a decent saving on the USA price then I would go for it

rhubarbe · 07-02-2008, 10:51 PM

I bought an NTSC Panasonic HD camcorder. It does work on dual equipment with no issues but it is a bit of a faff and unless you are going to save a lot of cash, or the model you want isn't available in PAL (like mine), I wouldn't bother.

Honest.

chubtor · 08-02-2008, 9:50 AM

Rhubarbe, would you care to expand on what you mean by "a bit of a faff" and which Panasonic model you purchased? I am keen on Panasonic equipment as I have found by experience that they are very reliable.

rhubarbe · 08-02-2008, 10:32 AM

Yes, by all means. I bought a PopcornHour media player (because it plays raw .MTS files) and you have to go into the setup menu to change your output from 1080i50 (I use this to send PAL DVD-ISO to my scaler) to 1080i60 every time you want to play an NTSC camcorder file. It's an HDC-SD7 BTW.

I wanted to buy a Panasonic DMP-BD30, because it has an SDHC slot for viewing my rushes directly on the HDTV, but the US model (that I'd need for NTSC) doesn't play PAL SD DVD and the new UK model may well not play the NTSC AVCHD files. Nobody can tell me, even though the UK one is supposed to do PAL and NTSC. But, if I buy one and it doesn't, well, it's no good to me.

Because the default shutter speed of the NTSC model is 1/60th, compared to the PAL model 1.50th, noise in low light scenes is exacerbated by the even faster shutter speed of the US model.

I suppose thatthe next bit is just personal, but I just don't like watching 30fps video. 25fps PAL looks so much more natural to me - maybe it's just because I am used to it.

I am sure that there are workarounds and this is just me whingeing, but it's my $0.02.

redsox_mark · 08-02-2008, 10:59 AM

And as "chubtor" is considering a standard definition camcorder, you also need to consider that PAL is 720x576, whilst NTSC is 720x480. I.e. there is more vertical resolution with PAL, plus the slower frame rate lets in more light as rhubarbe explained.

chubtor · 08-02-2008, 7:19 PM

This has been a most interesting exercise. I have set my provisional sights on the JVC GZ-MG275 which retails around £350 on line in the UK but doesn't seem to be available in the US retail sites. The MG255US is however and retails for $600 in Walmart and Target or $440 in Frys. The higher price for what seems to be a lower spec machine gives virtually no savings while the lower price gives a savings of around £80 after US sales tax but does not include VAT, duty etc if declared on the way back. I will continue to look while I am over there during March/April but as I don't really need it until before the missus and I depart on a World Cruise next Jan I will probably hold fire and get the best deal that I can in the pre-Christmas sales. Thanks to all who have contributed. I look forward to further posts after I have used my new camcorder.

rhubarbe · 08-02-2008, 9:15 PM

To quote Lili Von Shtupp: "Oh, a JVC GZ-MG275. How ordinary."

chubtor · 09-02-2008, 5:28 PM

OK then Rhubarbe if not the JVC, what would you go for.... not exceeding a price of £350. Remember what it is to be used for (ie recording our round the world travels for the family) and by a 70 year old and what equipment it is to be used with.

rhubarbe · 09-02-2008, 7:52 PM

Well, the first question I'd ask you is why do you particualrly want a HDD camcorder? I think that by next Christmas we'll be moving to solid state memory cams with a vengeance. These are smaller, lighter, the SDHC (or Memory Stick) is virtually indestructible.

I'd buy one of these:

http://www.purelygadgets.co.uk/showp...2597&wysiwyg=2

Panasonic SDR-S150. OK, that site I linked to has it at £399, but prices are falling. This cam records three hours of video on a single SDHC card up to 8GB (maybe more but that's the biggest I tried in one); it records in mpeg2 video just like your JVC and it weighs just 250 grammes. For SD, picture quality is excellent.

I had two of them, and I only sold the last one to make room for an HD cam - on my 720p TV the SDR-S150 video looks just about as good as the HD from my HDC-SD7.

chubtor · 11-02-2008, 4:29 PM

Why a hard drive? Well initially I thought that it would be more up to date and reliable than either tape or DVD because of the fewer moving mechanical parts, plus I have had good reliability with all my PCs over the years and have a Humax PVR that records and plays back with good quality. Secondly the idea of having 30 or 40Gb with its consequent ability to record hours and hours lets me think that I might just get all our holiday recordings on one hard drive without me having to download it to a laptop at regular intervals. We will be away for 82 nights and I have no intention of p******g off my better half by making her wait while I download the days video. OK so maybe I could buy half a dozen 8Gb SD cards and store them until we get back, but knowing me I would mislay them. Apart from that the SDR-S150 does get very mixed reviews doesn't it, it seems like Marmite - either you love it or hate it?

As an OAP I need a camcorder with simple to operate controls and menus, reasonably large buttons and switches, a good bright, big display so my old eyes can easily see what I am videoing, good image stabilisation for shaky hands, perhaps something with a little weight so that it feels firm in my hands and as I said earlier something I can record hours of video onto - and all for £350 or $700 or less. I am not looking for High Definition just something better than my old video camcorder. Any suggestions for UK or US models appreciated as we will be "over there" in a month's time.

redsox_mark · 11-02-2008, 4:41 PM

What is your old video camera?

The thing is that lower end HDD camcorders (which generally have a single small sensor) don’t provide very special video quality; they generally aren’t as good as DV tape models in the same price range. (Though tape is clearly getting less fashionable). So it’s possible that the models you are considering won’t be as good as what you have.

glesgaguyav · 11-02-2008, 4:48 PM

Have you visited this web site ?

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ratings.php

At the end of the day the decision is yours as to which camcorder you eventually buy, this site will give you comparisons of camcorders of different types and Iam sure it will help you decide, it's a US site so the model numbers may not entirely corrospond to UK models

chubtor · 11-02-2008, 5:19 PM

My present video camera - currently stuck in the attic somewhere - is a very old VHS-C Panasonic which served good purpose 10 or more years ago but is now far too heavy for me to lug around and far too complicated to burn onto to DVD.

I have been reading one of the other threads on here and have started looking at the Canon HV20. The best USA price I have found so far on a "walk in" store is $660 at CompUSA. That price translates to about £375 after sales tax is added but before VAT and duty.

It looks a good machine, mostly excellent reviews, seems to have some weight to it and from the YOU Tube video on CNet it is fairly easy to operate. I will keep an eye on it and if it looks like the UK price will drop to under £400 by Christmas 2008 it could be a contender.

redsox_mark · 11-02-2008, 5:52 PM

Ok... given that your old camcorder is a VHS-C model, you should see an improvement.

HV20 is excellent; though it is a tape based model. it is being replaced by the HV30; there is little difference, but it does mean that by Christmas 2008 it will be only the HV30 available.

chubtor · 11-02-2008, 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glesgaguyav

Have you visited this web site ?

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ratings.php

At the end of the day the decision is yours as to which camcorder you eventually buy, this site will give you comparisons of camcorders of different types and Iam sure it will help you decide, it's a US site so the model numbers may not entirely corrospond to UK models

That is an interesting site and I had not seen it before, it confirms that I am on the right lines as the top listed camcorder that is not High Defintion happens to be the JVC GZ-MG255. That particular model is not available in the UK but the MG275 is - which is where I was before considering stretching my budget for the Canon HV20.

Now I just have to make up my mind USA or UK? HV20 or MG275? Hmm, I'llponder on that for a while.

Many thanks to all who have contributed.

redsox_mark · 11-02-2008, 6:29 PM

the top listed camcorder that is not High Defintion happens to be the JVC GZ-MG255.

No, but the top listed non high def model in that chart ia a JVC, the GZ-MG555. It is no longer a current model, but the MG575 is similar.

Other SD models ranked above the MG255 are Canon DC50, Sony SR300, Sony DVD508, Panasonic GS320, Panasonic D310, Panasonic H200, Panasonic GS85....

chubtor · 11-02-2008, 7:06 PM

So what am I missing here Mark? If I look at that table the MG255 is ranked 11 and is the first one that has a red cross against High Definition while the DC50 is ranked 13.

glesgaguyav · 11-02-2008, 8:08 PM

To be honest, if you are considering stretching your budget just go for the HV20 (or HG10 if you want HDD), if your not in a hurry, then buy the time your ready to buy, the price of these cams may have come down a bit in price, just keep checking for availability.
You won't be dissapointed in either cam and you will be future proof as far as your video footage.

GaryB · 11-02-2008, 8:45 PM

One other side-effect of using a US camcorder here which I don't think has been mentioned above, is that if you film under fluorescent lighting, you will get a slight flicker due to the 25fps vs. 30fps frame rates.

redsox_mark · 11-02-2008, 9:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubtor

So what am I missing here Mark? If I look at that table the MG255 is ranked 11 and is the first one that has a red cross against High Definition while the DC50 is ranked 13.

I see the MG555 at #11, 255 is at #24.

5 and 2 do look similar.

rhubarbe · 11-02-2008, 9:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryB

One other side-effect of using a US camcorder here which I don't think has been mentioned above, is that if you film under fluorescent lighting, you will get a slight flicker due to the 25fps vs. 30fps frame rates.

I have a 60fps NTSC cam and you don't get flickering under 50Hz sodium lighting.

rhubarbe · 11-02-2008, 9:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chubtor

I also have a HUMAX PVR-9200T which makes no mention of PAL or NTSC.

Well, it wouldn't, would it? The 9200T is a Freeview recorder and they don't have Freeview (DVB-T) in NTSC land.

chubtor · 11-02-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

I see the MG555 at #11, 255 is at #24.

5 and 2 do look similar.

OK so now you know why I need a VERY clear display as part of my camcorder requirements! Thanks Mark.

rhubarbe · 11-02-2008, 10:27 PM

That last comment throws up another, but very valid point. If you wear specs all of the time you'll most likely do OK with a camcorder that just has an LCD. OTOH, if you just need reading specs, like me, you'll find the LCD-only cams a right royal PITA. You walk along, camcorder in hand, trying to film but you can't see the LCD unless you don your reading specs, and if you do you can't see to walk along.

chubtor · 12-02-2008, 7:21 PM

Yes I am a 100% spec wearer, very short sighted and find binoculars and camera view finders a right royal pain - one of the reasons I have taken to digital cameras with nice big LCD displays. Snag is the missus is long sighted so we have a bit of a conflict there!

chubtor · 12-04-2008, 10:16 PM

Just thought that I would add a quick update to this post as I am currently in the States where I tried and failed to buy a Canon HV20 at a reasonable price. Most of the "walk in" stores in Austin sell them around $1000 by the time tax is added while the on-line stores are between $500 and $600, however they have none in stock and quote 4-5 weeks leadtime - too long for me to wait.
However I did get a Sony HDR-HC5 for $440 including tax at a local Circuit City where it was on Clearance Sale. Time will tell if I have made a wise choice, on the face of it I think that it is a reasonable buy - it has reviewed well and at first play seems to work OK, incidentally I also picked up a 4Gb Memory Stick to fit the machine for a further $33 so we should be well set up for our big holiday next year.
Thank you to all who gave me advice when I first started this thread.