OKs, looking to get a camcorder but from what I understand the highest rated camcorders use the AVCHD format which can only be transfered onto blu-ray discs?

which HD camcorder lets you trasfer files for playback in High Def using HD-DVD discs and/or another option?

[senu]

The highest rated camcorders use HDV ( tape) not AVCHD

However Hi Def authoring software should be able to allow you make Mini-HD DVD or BD ROM regardless of which your starting material is as both standards support Mpeg2, AVCHD and VC1

HD DVD does not yet support 50i from HDV so there will need to be some "transcoding" from PAL Hi def Camcorders
It is true that the PS3 ( which is a capable BD player) is also a multiformat video file reader which will play high definition mpeg2, m2t, avchd, Hi def Divx and Quicktime HD ( but not WMV-HD). This is however not nessesarily true of standalone Blu ray players which are not specifically stated to be similarly endowed

thanks SENU
"The highest rated camcorders use HDV ( tape) not AVCHD"


So, my question would be, since I already have 2 HD-DVD players and I am not interested in purchasing a Blu-Ray player...which camcorder with a hard drive lets me transfer my recorded video files onto HD discs to be played back in HD through my Hd-DVD player.

The Canon HV10 lets you record directly onto a DVD disc that can be played directly onto blu-ray.... doesnt Hd-DVD get any love when it comes to camcorders?

[senu]

Originally Posted by etownone

thanks SENU
"The highest rated camcorders use HDV ( tape) not AVCHD"

The Hi def tape cameras all use HDV including the HV20
However the HG 10 on first impressions seems like a very well sorted camera. I will do an in depth real life user "review " but I must say.. I like it a lot.. So far

So, my question would be, since I already have 2 HD-DVD players and I am not interested in purchasing a Blu-Ray player...which camcorder with a hard drive lets me transfer my recorded video files onto HD discs to be played back in HD through my HD-DVD player

That is not a camcorder "problem" it is one for the HD DVD hardware manufacturers to address in firmware upgrades ( if they wish to). Certainly I would have a look at JVCs HDD Hi Def series. the HD7 has been disappointing but Ive read about the HD3 which with JVSc add on DVD recorder seems to be able to make discs playable to HDTV via HDMI. What is less clear is whether or not such disc will play on an HD DVD player.
Without meaning to stir a hornets nest, I certainly think dual format Hi def Players rather than one or other are the future as I don't see either camp giving in each particularly given the current reasonable Studio support on either side and no visible quality difference down to the 1080p 24 p issue
Unfortunately Im not sure the Xbox 360 HD DVD add on supports more than HD DVD, "mini HD DVD" or WMV-HD

The Canon HV10 lets you record directly onto a DVD disc that can be played directly onto blu-ray....

Does it?

doesnt Hd-DVD get any love when it comes to camcorders?

Seems not but that is down to Toshiba and the HD DVD alliance not so much the camcorder manufacturers.. Maybe if Toshibs made camcorders..
There seems to be a lack of cohesion between The camcorder, software, and Hardware Playback Divisions ( and Studios) in the Current High Definition scenario which Joe Public is being left to sort out what works where?

again..thanks SENU

you def know your stuff....its funny because you mention the JVC camcorders and I received a JVC Everio GZ-HD3 for xmas from my girlfriend, but told her she could return it and she can get me the cheaper and better HDD Canon HG10.....only to now realize that it seems she had bought the right one for me all along.

SHe said the reps at 6th ave told her that if I didn't want to go blu-ray that the JVC Everio GZ-HD3 is my best choice.....and then I go and tell those guys were just trying to sell her the most expensive cam for commission.

i feel pretty stupid right now...especially if i decide i want the JVC one again...even though the Canon HV20 is looking good but I'm no pro and wanted to upgrade to HDD.

[alpine101]

Do you know of any HD-DVD writers? I don't think they exist yet, even the LG PC drive that has BD write capabilities is still around £190 and the media for it at least £15 a disk.
Panasonic AVCHD cameras come with a utility that will write ordinary red light DVD -R/-RW disks in high def mode and they are supposed to read OK on an HD DVD player, but I haven't got one to try this on. Senu, I don't know whether you have a BD player. If so, have you tried any disks authored with that Panny application in it? I don't think in this context a PS3 counts.

[Smurkenstein]

Bit off topic, really...but ther is a third (well, fourth if you include the ps3) way...you could go the mediaplayer direction, say one of the tvixs. I think these will play m2t's (not sure about m2ts, though) and the other formats. I realise you already bought into the HD format, but in my view...these are the way to go for the future. The hard disk route for archiving, that is. No faffing with burning/swapping disks. Backing up using the file system. All in one place. Wireless uploading from your pc.

It is currently a mine field, mind - the mediaplayer technology and support for all the gzillion available codecs is a pia. I have a HDD camcorder I got before x-mas and the mediaplayer I have is fussy about what it will play, to say the least. Having to transcode your movies for living room playback defeats the HDD advantage of not having to spool the video off the tape (which I hate)

[senu]

The PS3 does play m2t files natively off its HDD or off an optical disc.
It can also play any no of files used as a media streamer ..either via a wired network to a PC used as media server or even wireless if the distance is small

[senu]

Originally Posted by alpine101

... Senu, I don't know whether you have a BD player. If so, have you tried any disks authored with that Panny application in it? I don't think in this context a PS3 counts.

Not just yet but in the next few days. sadly not too many people I know have standalone BD players ..more like PS3 and none seem keen on BD ROM drives on thier HTPCs preffering to use HDD rips!

oks...after doing much research and calling the guys at tech support for Pinnacle and Corel..... there are two programs that i found that can take AVCHD or the HVD format from camcorders and transfer it to regular DVD or HD-DVD discs to be played in high-def on HD-DVD players, and they can also do the same for blu-ray.

1. Pinnacle Studio Plus version 11

"Smoothly convert video format from AVCHD to HD-DVD
Create HD-DVD discs with menus
Burn high-quality HD-DVD on a standard DVD media, using a standard DVD burner."


2. VideoStudio 11 Plus

"VideoStudio 11 Plus is video editing and DVD authoring software for anyone who wants to easily produce professional-looking videos, slideshows and DVDs. Enjoy unique and powerful features including full HD DVD authoring, AVCHD support, Dolby® Digital 5.1 surround sound and a full set of easy corrective and creative filters"


Now this seems like exactly what I was looking for.....has anyone used these programs?? I plan on buying the Canon HG10 and would like to be able transfer the recorded high def video to disc for playback in High Def on a HD-DVD player since I do not have blu-ray.

[senu]

I would read other threads by users on here regarding thier success or otherwise in dealing with these files in software. (A lot of what you seek to do has been tried by others on here with varying degrees of success)
I would take the marketing a face value
A recent post indicated that it was not until the poster tried Sony Vegas 8 trial that he "struck Gold"
Saying that, HG 10 does come with Special versions of Ulead Movie factory and a Backup solution disc in the box that should get you up and running
The good thing about the programs you mention though is that they have trial versions you may want to try.
If you want some AVCHD samples and cant get some online , you can ask on here , myself or others on here might be able to help depending on where you are

Originally Posted by senu

I would read other threads by users on here regarding thier success or otherwise in dealing with these files in software. (A lot of what you seek to do has been tried by others on here with varying degrees of success)
I would take the marketing a face value
A recent post indicated that it was not until the poster tried Sony Vegas 8 trial that he "struck Gold"
Saying that, HG 10 does come with Special versions of Ulead Movie factory and a Backup solution disc in the box that should get you up and running
The good thing about the programs you mention though is that they have trial versions you may want to try.
If you want some AVCHD samples and cant get some online , you can ask on here , myself or others on here might be able to help depending on where you are

again thanks for the informative replies SENU...
so how can I get a sample of AVCHD? so i can then download a trial of Ulead or pinnacle to then see if it could be played back in high def on my HD-DVD player.

[senu]

Redsox_Mark linked some but if you PM Ill could send you some as well

[alpine101]

Originally Posted by etownone

2. VideoStudio 11 Plus

"VideoStudio 11 Plus is video editing and DVD authoring software for anyone who wants to easily produce professional-looking videos, slideshows and DVDs. Enjoy unique and powerful features including full HD DVD authoring, AVCHD support, Dolby® Digital 5.1 surround sound and a full set of easy corrective and creative filters"


Now this seems like exactly what I was looking for.....has anyone used these programs?? I plan on buying the Canon HG10 and would like to be able transfer the recorded high def video to disc for playback in High Def on a HD-DVD player since I do not have blu-ray.

Yes, I have used VS11 Plus, with its current patches, to produce an HDDVD disk on a standard DVD-RW. You get about 20mins on each DVD, and the result will play as an HDDVD in the LG BD/HDDVD drive that I installed on my PC today. Power DVD Ultra thinks its an HDDVD so I assume it would also work on a real player. XP Explorer cannot see anything on the DVD and reports it as blank since as part of the process VS11 formats the disk as UDF2.5, which XP doesn't understand. However dragging and dropping the apparently blank disk on to PDVD results in it playing OK.

On a 2.4GHz Core Quad 6600 system, it took VS11 about 42mins to render to the DVD 18mins of AVCHD shots from my Panny SD1, with a simple lap dissolve between each shot. All 4 cores were being used by VS11.

VS11 actually offers 3 disk output options, HDDVD, where it allows you to write on a standard DVD, BD where it seems to expect a 25GB BD writeable disk, and AVCHD. I haven't tried this last one yet, but it seems to be similiar to HDDVD and is prepared to write its output to standard DVD media. I'll give it a go tomorrow...

[senu]

Did you have to get the Hi def add on that Video Studio 11.5 seems to have?

[alpine101]

Originally Posted by senu

Did you have to get the Hi def add on that Video Studio 11.5 seems to have?

There are 2 free patches for registered users, one a fixer of 27MB and the bigger one, 55MB that increments to 11.5 which does have this output choice. I can't remember what the output choices on the earlier version were I'm afraid. Mine now reports itself as version 11.5.0157.2 Plus with Dolby Digital 1 power pack.

[alpine101]

I've now rendered the same set of clips that I mentioned a few posts ago using VS11's 'AVCHD' disk setting rather than the 'HDDVD' setting.

The HDDVD choice took 42mins to render, and came out as a 22Mbps Mpeg video on the DVD, as reported by PowerDVD Ultra. The disk structure was very simple, like an ordinary DVD with a single HVDVD_TS directory containing a number of 1GB video files as .EVOs.

The AVCHD setting took over an hour to render the 18minutes, and PowerDVD reports it as MPEG4 running at about 8Mbps. Again, I can't explore the disk on one PC, but on the one where I have the UDF drivers installed, it has a BLuRay directory structure with a top level BDMV directory, and the somewhat complex empty structure under that, 'MovieObject.bdmv','index.bdmv' and then the AUXDATA, BACKUP,BDJO,CLIPINF,JAR,META,PLAYLIST, STREAM dirs. There's only one file in the STREAM dir, a 1.3GB .m2ts file. The disk will not play as a drag n' drop on this machine, since PowerDVD sees it as a BluRay disk and tells me I have an incompatible graphics system. (No AACS of course on this laptop). But browsing into the STREAM dir, and then dragging and dropping the .m2ts file directly on to PowerDVD, it plays OK. It may be that this is the ability that has been removed in versions of PowerDVD later than 3319a. But I'm not updating to find out!

It will drag n' drop OK on the other machine, which does have an AACS video card (ATI 2600Pro)

Edit: one thing I've just noticed is that this version produced with the AVCHD setting has preserved the Dolby Digital track, whereas the HDDVD setting produced a PCM stereo track. There are customising settings that I haven't tried yet that may fix this.
Edit edit!: There doesn't appear to be a setting in the HDDVD disk producer to allow the generation of the 5.1 track for some reason: it just produces PCM. But Dolby Digital works in AVCHD mode.

[senu]

Once again thanks for sharing that .. I need to use a disc made with your stuff on a Standalone BD player..Ill see if i can this weekend

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by senu

Once again thanks for sharing that .. I need to use a disc made with your stuff on a Standalone BD player..Ill see if i can this weekend

are you planning to use a player other than a ps3

[senu]

Yes, as the PS3 is also a media player it is likely to be capable of more than ordinary standalone BD players are capable of ( apart from playing games)
It does make a case for it though as they are not cheaper and many not really better BD players

[Ken42]

This seems to be the best place to ask my question.

Thanks to the excellent advice on this forum and this thread, I have just bought a Canon HV20 and have been experimenting with it for the last couple of days. I don't have an HD TV yet but the footage looks great on my BenQ W100 projector which is not full HD. It even looks great after transferring the footage to my Panasonic DVD recorder and playing back in SD mode via the projector.

It'll probably look better still when I view it on my sister-in-law's HD TV later today.

I will be taking the camera with me on holiday (India) at the end of next week and I'm wondering if I should use Standard HDV mode, HDV PF25 mode or HDV 25PF combined with cine mode when shooting the footage?

I can of course try them all out to see what I get, but I'm looking for advice as to which mode will be easiest to edit later using an inexpensive editor such as VS11 to create HD DVDs. At present I don't have any of the equipment to do this, but want to get it right for the future.

[redsox_mark]

Standard HDV mode will be the safest, as VS11 will definately edit that. The software needs to recognise the 25p mode to get the progressive effect, not sure if VS11 does. Unless you are looking for a "film effect" I wouldn't use the cine mode.

[Ken42]

Thanks. What exactly is 'cinema' effect?

[redsox_mark]

The gamma settings optimized to produce footage with a film-like look. Gamma has to do with the colour intensity. If you watch a film, generally the colours and feel is different than say watching the 10 O'clock news.

[redsox_mark]

This may help understand Cinema mode

http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=750

(Or it may overload you with information.. )

In short it gives a specific "look", which is more important if creating a film drama, then say a typical family holiday video.

[Ken42]

Thanks a lot redsox. That HV20 thread you linked to is very informative, but for now I think I'll just shoot in 'holiday' mode.

[MagicRabbit]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

The gamma settings optimized to produce footage with a film-like look. Gamma has to do with the colour intensity. If you watch a film, generally the colours and feel is different than say watching the 10 O'clock news.

You can get the slightly "overcooked" look of standard mode by adding a filter to the CINE mode footage. Curiously, you can't go back the other way and make recorded standard footage look like CINE mode.

I'm beginning to think CINE mode may have far more advantages than disadvantages.