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Old 22-12-2007, 6:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Christmas day camcorder required Panasonic NVG230 or Canon MD101 or JVC GRD-D720

My camcorder has stopped working and need to get one for christmas day. Timescales are going to prevent internet so Argos would seem like a good bet.

If you had a choice of the following which one?

Argos price Panasonic NVG230 £230

Argos price Canon MD101 £170 (includes Case and Pack of 5 mini DV m60 tapes)

Argos price JVC GRD-D720 £130

Thanks Foghorn

Last edited by foghorn; 22-12-2007 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 22-12-2007, 7:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Christmas day camcorder required Panasonic NVG230 or Canon MD101 or JVC GRD-D720

MD101 is true widescreen. Good video quality. Some reports of motor noise.

GS230 isn't, and you can't use the image stabilisation in widescreen mode. But apart from that the picture is a bit better than the MD101.

I'm not familiar with the JVC.

I'd probably get the MD101 if you want to shoot widescreen; otherwise the GS230.
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Old 22-12-2007, 7:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Christmas day camcorder required Panasonic NVG230 or Canon MD101 or JVC GRD-D720

The JVC GRD720 is a good camera for £130 its not bad.

I have the JVC GRD770 (which is a GRD 720) but with firewire input and output. Had the camera since Summer 2007 and so far its great and low light its less grainy than the others.
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Old 22-12-2007, 7:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Christmas day camcorder required Panasonic NVG230 or Canon MD101 or JVC GRD-D720

Thanks for the replies, i was just checking the John Lewis site and it seems that they were selling the Canon MD160 for £170. None in stock on line but might try phoning the store tomorrow.

Possible contender?

I cant stretch to HD is there any other model say with hard drive worth considering or is it better just sticking with mini dv?



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Old 22-12-2007, 7:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Christmas day camcorder required Panasonic NVG230 or Canon MD101 or JVC GRD-D720

In this price range you'll get best quality with miniDV.

MD160 has slightly better video quality than the MD101, and has a memory card for stills, but doesn't have the external mic input the MD101 does.
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Old 27-12-2007, 10:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Christmas day camcorder required Panasonic NVG230 or Canon MD101 or JVC GRD-D720

I bought the JVC GRD-D720 from Argos yesterday and found the image quality to be appalling. My first footage was of my daughter - orange hair, purple coat and red wellies - but they all looked the same on the LCD screen, on my TV and on my PC. I took the camcorder back this morning and, although Argos have a 'no returns' policy on cameras etc, they were good enough to change it for a Panasonic NV-GS230 (plus a bit of cash!) The difference in picture quality is remarkable. I took almost the same footage today and there is a world of difference.
JVC GRD-D720 = £126
Panasonic NV-GS230 = £266 (cheeky buggers put the price up overnight)
At that price difference you would expect improved quality and I am much happier with the Panasonic.

Happy to discuss!

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Old 28-12-2007, 1:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Christmas day camcorder required Panasonic NVG230 or Canon MD101 or JVC GRD-D720

I was torn between the Panasonic and the Canon, but opted for the Canon.My choice was swayed by the fact that the Canon had true widescreen.

Would I recommend the Canon for indoor use the simple answer to that would be no, regardless of how much artificial light you introduce to the room or the setting i.e. night mode the colours could be a lot better and the general image has a blotched look to it. Tried it outside and Canon fairs better but the colours are still not completely accurate.

When I looked at the spec for the Canon I found that the Lux is 2, my 12 year old Panasonic was 1 Lux. Not sure if that makes all that much difference.

Do I wish I had opted for the Panasonic well perhaps, but then again who to say it would have faired any better in indoor conditions.

What I would say is that if the general view is that mini DV is still better than HD and DVD at twice the amount then their must be some lousy Camcorders going about or then again maybe I was expecting to much.

Foghorn

Last edited by foghorn; 28-12-2007 at 1:33 AM.
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Old 15-01-2008, 10:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Christmas day camcorder required Panasonic NVG230 or Canon MD101 or JVC GRD-D720

I bought a Panasonic NVG230 during the Argos so-called sales at £266.

I’m very happy with. It’s fantastic camcorder for that price. I had a chance to use more professional camcorder such as a Panasonic DVX100. So I was expecting their 3CCD technology even on a very small CCD (1/6") to give good results. And it does. In fact I will never ever go back to a cam with only a single CCD unless if it’s very big.

The widescreen was also an important feature because it teach you to compose in a better way your shooting. A rectangle is better than a square.

I disagree with some post mentioning the Pana 230 is not a true widescreen. In fact it is and it’s very simple to prove it: when you shoot on 16:9 you do have more pixels on the left and on the right and the picture is recorded into an anamorphic format compatible with widescreen screens.
However if you activate the cinema mode then the picture is cropped on the top and bottom. Stay away from the Cinema setting but do activate the 16-9 (widescreen) setting.

At that stage you lose the stabilization. It’s because the extra pixels used before for the stabilization are now used for the 16:9 feature.
That’s not a big deal. In fact I think it’s better.
That’s because the stabilization is electronic and not optical so it doesn't deliver good results. It’s like a digital zoom, stay away from it. Just move closer to your subject.

However a nice touch on the Pana is you have the zoom connected with the microphone. So you actually pick the sound closer to the subject without moving. As a result you get a better sound. As sound is at least 50% of what makes a film a film, anything that make the recording of the sound better is good. Hence the possibility to plug an external microphone is also important.

Two other features required for me are the ability the turn off the red lamp while recording and having the possibility to set-up manually the white balance.

The problem with those small camcorders is to stay firm while you shoot.

You do have to learn to shoot properly. And yes, it’s hard, it require practice.

However there is some tips to make a shoot way better. Don’t take them too seriously, I’m not a pro. They’ve just helped me to do way better video that actually my friend and family enjoy watching. The previous tapes are still in their cases and we very rarely watch them.

First : don’t move, compose.
Make sure the arm is close to your body and hold your elbow with your second hand.
Do not breath, do not talk, do not move too much and don’t play with the zoom. Do not tilt (moving up/down) or pan (moving left/right), those require extreme skill because they have to be fluid and slow. Without a tripod they are almost impossible.

As a rule of thumb what’s your filming is already moving enough. If you move with your camera too much you’re just giving headache to the viewer.

The only reason you want to move with your camera is to pick up the sound because the mic is attached to the camcorder. Then when you’re going to cut your video you can keep the sound and replace the crap footage by something else (a photo, another scene).

Anyways Composition is the key of any good footage.
That’s why 16:9 / widescreen is very good. Rectangles are better than squares to tell a story.

As strange as it may sound, while filming you’re becoming a spectator.
The first one of your film. You do not take part of the event you’re filming.
That’s why I never try to film all the time because I want to enjoy the birthday of my daughter as much as she does.


Second tip: move!
By using a £20 DIY steadycam.

I can only recommend this link:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/steadycam/
or google the words “DIY steadycam“

With a steady cam you have to learn to “glide”. It means walking like Michael Jackson. I think it’s called moonwalking.

There is no secret here: practice again and again.

So by learning how to not move, to observe (composing) and sliding you got better chances to make interesting videos.


My last tip is asking yourself why you want to pick up the camcorder.
Decide before taking your camcorder what you want to film.
Don’t try to capture that “special moment” because there are too many. By trying too capture everything you end up recording only crap.
The best way I found is to focus on one emotion.
Obviously we want to film happy people. It’s a good start and not that easy because not everybody is always happy. Some don’t want to be filmed. Others play fool. What you want is just honest emotions. That’s why being almost invisible is good. But at least on focusing on one emotion you know what your doing.
For a birthday you might want to focus on the surprise.
You can focus on the joy of having something new like your son having his funny new red light shoes and jumping up and down.
Then you realize to capture those emotions, filming people opening their presents under the tree is not the best moment and place.

Anyways, after 3 hours of editing, those 30mn shootage become short clips of 3mn. They are memorable and nobody yawns!

Disclaimer:
« Nothing in the above is to be construed as advice or applicable to any purpose whatsoever. It may be random monkies typing as far as the Einstein of the universe is concerned. »
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Old 04-05-2008, 1:33 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Christmas day camcorder required Panasonic NVG230 or Canon MD101 or JVC GRD-D720

poub - I am thinking of buying a Panasonic NVG230. Are you happy with yours after 4 months of use?
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