[slowpoke]

Have a budget up to £500. Have done a little bit of research but dont have much of a clue. What would you reccomend? Someone reccomended the Panasonic SD7 though the SD1 seems a good deal on QVC

[redsox_mark]

SD7 is an import only. The price of the SD1 on QVC is a good deal.
What are your needs and priorities? The best quality will be with a HDV tape model like the Canon HV20, Sony HC7, or Sony HC5. If you want AVCHD on memory card, then the Panasonic SD5, SD7, or SD1. If you want AVCHD on HDD, then Canon HG10 or Sony SR7. The AVCHD models are good, but you lose some quality and you need a fast PC and the right software to edit and play.

[slowpoke]

Thanks redsox

How come tape is still better quality than recording onto harddrive or memory card?

[redsox_mark]

The compression/format. For high definition, HDV (tape) is 25 mbps MPEG2, the HDD/Flash Memory cams are AVCHD/MPEG4, 15 mbps max.

The reason the HDD and flash memory cams use greater compression is so they can fit more on a HDD or card.. there is no technical reason why they could not use a less compressed format; in fact JVC has a couple of cams which do this, they use a version of MPEG2 on HDD. But they have some other issues (e.g. image stabilisation).

[slowpoke]

Thanks again


The reason I was prefering HD or SD was that it would be easier to get onto my PC and edit. With tapes how difficult is it to do this?

Also would the canon HV20 also record in high defintion?

[redsox_mark]

It is easy to upload to the PC from tape using Firewire. It is realtime transfer however. So it will take 1 hour to upload a 1 hour tape.

Yes, the HV20 records in 1080i high definition; and even as a 1080 25p mode.

[slowpoke]

Thanks Mark, its all becoming more clear now

If you had a choice between the SD5 and the HV20 which would you purchase?

[redsox_mark]

I would get the HV20, the main reasons being:

1. I want the best quality I can get
2. I don't mind tape

Point 2 comes down to a couple of things. Some people see tape as "old technology" and just don't want it, even though it is still digital, a good archive media etc. Others don't want to edit much or at all on a PC, and want to be able to quickly extract and upload clips from the camcorder. This is the most compelling argument to me for HDD or flash memory based cams. As I tend to do extensive editing on the PC, I always want to capture all my footage and edit, so the latter point doesn't do much for me.

[slowpoke]

Thanks Mark, that really helps

So it really comes down to how much I will want to edit on PC as opposed to being able to quicly play back onto TV from a camera.

Also agree on the point about tapes. Until you explained it to me I assumed you couldnt record HD material onto tape.

Now here is my next question and hopefully last question. I have an intel core duo Pc with 2meg RAM so fairly quick. Will I easily be able to edit my tapes and burn them onto DVD to play on my TV? Will I be able to watch them in high defintion?

[redsox_mark]

Your PC will certainly be able to edit HDV (tape) with no problem; it's probably also fast enough to edit AVCHD (with the right software).

Will I easily be able to edit my tapes and burn them onto DVD to play on my TV? Will I be able to watch them in high defintion?

This is a trickier question. If you are talking about a DVD video which you can play in a standard DVD player, you can create these easily, yes, but it will not be in high definition. This is the case for either HDV tape or AVCHD like on the SD5.

There are however many options to watch in high definition; some of them are:

- You can burn 20 mins or so of high def footage on to a ordinary DVD disc which can be played by a HD-DVD player. (With the right software to do this).
- You can burn on to a HD-DVD disc (with a HD-DVD burner) or a Blu-Ray disc (with a Blu-Ray burner), and play these on a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player.
- Playstation 3 will play either AVCHD or WMV or MPEG2 high def formats.
- There are media players which play HDV or AVCHD (more support for HDV)
- You can play the files from your PC

[slowpoke]

Mark, thanks alot, I think we have covered everything. really appreciated

[slowpoke]

One last question please Mark

What if I bought the SD1 and took some footage. Could I edit it on my PC and put it back onto a memory card and play it back on my HD TV?

[rhubarbe]

We don't believe so, no. Currently, there is no editing software that will let you output edited AVCHD footage as AVCHD.

We are hoping that there will be soon.

EDIT: I think I read that there is some for the Mac. I will see if I can find where I read it....

[rhubarbe]

Sony Vegas Pro 8 for Windows can do it:

http://www.webvideouniverse.com/edit...le.php/3700861

or so it says.

[slowpoke]

So onece you move the file from the memory card then on most editing SW it gets convereted into a different format and you can chnage it back to the original format.
Can you still play it from he memory card using a different format or will it be too large?

[redsox_mark]

You could save it in other formats on the memory card, but to play from the camcorder it will need to be AVCHD, that's all it understands. The other thing to look out for is there are small variations in AVCHD formats; the earlier versions of Vegas won't edit Panasonic AVCHD but would Sony. That's been fixed, but I'm not sure if the edited AVCHD from Sony Vegas would neccessarily play on the Panasonic camcorder.

If you put the memory card in say a Playstation 3, you could use any formats that it takes (e.g. WMV-HD).

[slowpoke]

Unfortunately I have a 360 and dont plan to get a PS3. It seems lik ethe major issues with HD camcroders are the playback in HD on other sources.

[redsox_mark]

The 360 with the HD add-on can also play HD material; I don't think it plays AVCHD though.

[slowpoke]

thats an option for sure, thanks Mark!

[rhubarbe]

Seen this?

http://shop.cd-writer.com/acatalog/A...RECT__810.html

Available cheaper elsewhere so shop around if you want one.

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

Seen this?

http://shop.cd-writer.com/acatalog/A...RECT__810.html

Available cheaper elsewhere so shop around if you want one.

How does it help?

[rhubarbe]

Doesn't help you. Helps anybody with Blu-Ray player or PS3.

Hi, I've jumped in on this conversation as it closely relates to an issue I've been trying to figure out for a long time.

I am trying to determine the best camcorder to purchase for easy editing (with Pinnacle 10). I am very cautious about picking out a camcorder because the last time I purchased one it was completely useless. There was not an easy way to transfer the files into Pinnacle (no USB and the mini-DVDs could not be read by my computer) and the file types that it saved in were extremely arcane - extensions I've never even seen before. I was later told that this camcorder was strictly intended for recording and then playing only. No editing. Which is why I guess the files were in such weird formats. (???)

Anyway, as I research camcorders I find little or no mention of the format the files are in when I read about each product. Why is this information so hard to come by? I wish there was a place to go that had all of the camcorder specs as usual PLUS a mention of what format the files are in so that I can know if I will be able to import them or not.
I am very afraid of purchasing another camcorder that records files that I can't import and edit.

Could you please offer me some advice to help me find camcorders that make for easy import and editing? I use a PC.


I would appraciate ANY advice. Thank you!

[redsox_mark]

The major formats are:

Standard Def:

miniDV: Capture by firewire, easiest to edit. Files are .avi files; using DV compression. Any camcorder which is miniDV (uses tapes) will use this format. Any editor (inc Pinnacle) will edit easily.

DVD: You've had experience with these already. They use file names and structures used for DVDs. They can be edited, you just need the right software.

HDD: Creates MPEG2 files (same format as DVD), though the file structure is different, depends on the camcorder.

High Def

HDV: Uses miniDV tapes. Capture via Firewire, files are MPEG2 (.mt2 files). I think Pinnacle 10 edits HDV, you can check the manual.

AVCHD: Uses HDD, DVD or memory card. "Capture" via USB. I don't think Pinnacle 10 edits them, Pinnacle 11 does. The hardest to edit, in terms of need a recent editing package and a fast PC.

[senu]

Originally Posted by fhloston

I am very cautious about picking out a camcorder because the last time I purchased one it was completely useless. There was not an easy way to transfer the files into Pinnacle (no USB and the mini-DVDs could not be read by my computer) and the file types that it saved in were extremely arcane - extensions I've never even seen before. I was later told that this camcorder was strictly intended for recording and then playing only. No editing. Which is why I guess the files were in such weird formats. (???)
..
I am very afraid of purchasing another camcorder that records files that I can't import and edit.

Could you please offer me some advice to help me find camcorders that make for easy import and editing? I use a PC.

I would appraciate ANY advice. Thank you!

Which camcorder was it you got that has such "non standard " files.
Some propiertary file named like *.MOD by JVC Everio camcorders actually are really mpeg2 files whose extension can be changed for compatibility if need be.
The Sanyo Xacti HD files are non standard but they have Mac support and there ae workarounds on the PC
Mark has quite thoroughly covered most of the current formats
Aprt from AVCHD Pinnacle 10 should be able to import and edit them all
AVCHD does need slight more recent software and a Newer ( and decent spec PC) to play and edit it

[senu]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

We don't believe so, no. Currently, there is no editing software that will let you output edited AVCHD footage as AVCHD.

We are hoping that there will be soon.

EDIT: I think I read that there is some for the Mac. I will see if I can find where I read it....

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

Sony Vegas Pro 8 for Windows can do it:

http://www.webvideouniverse.com/edit...le.php/3700861

or so it says.

Indeed
Actually it doesnt
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...457&PageID=106
Imovie08 on the mac does though AFAIK
Also the PS3 plays a lot of formats but isnt about to give Microsoft an easy ride.. WMV-HD support is a Vegas ( Also Sony) Exports to WMV though
There is available for download however, a utility with codec which converts all formats to a PS3 friendly mpeg4

After my PC would not read the mini DVD I managed to find a computer that would list the files on the disk. I can't remember them very well right now, but best I can recall it seems that there was a .bov (?) file and something with a 'p', like .pvm or something. All I know is that none of the file extensions looked familiar nor did they match any of what was listed in the Pinnacle manual. It was a Sony DCR-DVD205.
Maybe it was just me and my newbiescence, but I had an awful time with it.

I think I am going to go with this: Sony DCR-HC96. It looks like I can purchase it directly from Sony and it seems to have good reviews. The selection of HDV camcorders (under $750) all seem to have poor sound quality. Hopefully our IT girl can modify my PC so that I can get a firewire port.

In summary - I'm liking the miniDV idea. HDV would be fine but I'd rather have quality in my areas of concern over HD, so SD can be okay with me too. My main issues are video quality, audio quality, and lighting. I don't care about stills at all. And if there is an easier option than firewire that would be nice too, but I do not wish to degrade the quality for it.

Thank you again.

[rhubarbe]

The absolute best place to buy the DCR-HC96 is ebuyer.com:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/108048

£297...

[redsox_mark]

Except I just noticed the OP is in the USA, the HC96 is still current there, and prices likely even cheaper.

[rhubarbe]

Eh? Maidenhead? I took him to be a Berks.