Which Camcorder?

byelawman · 26-11-2007, 10:26 PM

Hello people, its my 1st post so be gentle

I am looking for a new camcorder to film car rallies, ie forest and tarmac events. Im sure I want a Mini DV type as Ive read they are the best for editing and making DVD's, and I use 1 at the moment.

but I dont know what kind to get, Ive done a bit of research and my thinking is I need 1 with 3CCD and a good optical zoom, but I cant find 1 with a bigger zoom than 12x! (mine is 22x at the moment)

I started looking at the Panasonic NV-GS230/320 about 300ish new
then I started looking at the Canon XM1 about 550ish 2nd hand from e-bay, would I get any better footage from the Canon and if so how noticable would it be?

or am I looking at the wrong type of camcorder?

I would also like to be able to take a pic from the footage to put into a DVD cover

any help, Im sure will go along way

cheers

rhubarbe · 26-11-2007, 11:01 PM

If you have a budget of £550, go for the Canon HV20.

End of.

redsox_mark · 26-11-2007, 11:04 PM

Do you need a big zoom? Any more than 10x is hard to hold steady. As you can read about on the "zoom" thread, better camcorders with larger sensors tend to have smaller zooms.

The XM1 was a fine camcorder, but for £550 you can get a new Canon HV20 HDV.... the XM1 will be better in low light, but otherwise the HV20 will win out.

Or for £300 or less the Panasonic models you listed are good choices.

byelawman · 27-11-2007, 12:15 AM

thanks guys, that was quick

what would I gain from spending the extra £250 in getting the Canon HV20over say the Panasonic NV GS 320?

rhubarbe · 27-11-2007, 12:17 AM

High Definition. More up to date electronics. State of the art.

**senu** · 27-11-2007, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

High Definition. More up to date electronics. State of the art.

.....Better low light ability .. and better battery life

byelawman · 27-11-2007, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

High Definition. More up to date electronics. State of the art.

as I said Im using a Mini DV now, its a Samsung, would the Canon work in the same way, ie plug into my pc open Windows Movie Maker and press a button to transfer the footage? then play about with it to make a DVD

**senu** · 27-11-2007, 12:45 AM

The Canon will work pretty much the same way except you would need to set it to output as DV.
In that case although it records in High definition. It will down convert to SD (DV AVI) on the fly for ease of capturing but still leave the footage on the tape intact as HDV
Whilst on the subject, I think you'll find a Camcorder like the Canon ( unlike a Samsung ..who make excellent HDTVs but camcorder division is playing catch up ) deserves better than WMM.

PS: As for putting a still from video onto DVD cover, any competent NLE software should enable that fairly easily

byelawman · 27-11-2007, 8:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by senu

The Canon will work pretty much the same way except you would need to set it to output as DV.
In that case although it records in High definition. It will down convert to SD (DV AVI) on the fly for ease of capturing but still leave the footage on the tape intact as HDV
Whilst on the subject, I think you'll find a Camcorder like the Canon ( unlike a Samsung ..who make excellent HDTVs but camcorder division is playing catch up ) deserves better than WMM.

PS: As for putting a still from video onto DVD cover, any competent NLE software should enable that fairly easily

again, thanks for the info

Im very new to this editing thing, so WMM is all I know and TBH I find it very easy to use and the DVD's look ok! what would you suggest I use?

and what is 'NLE software'? as I said, Im very new to all this, thanks again

rhubarbe · 27-11-2007, 9:22 PM

Non Linear Editing...

byelawman · 28-11-2007, 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

Non Linear Editing...

erm, sorry again, what is that? and what will give a better look to my DVD's than WMM?

TIA

**senu** · 28-11-2007, 9:03 PM

Non linear editing is the term used to describe PC/Mac and indeed custom built based software Editing Programs
It is so called because unlike the old days of manual tape editing ( which you did as you went along in a linear fashion) your editing is not restricted to any specific order in relation to how you took the footage.
As such you could rearrange the edit so that what you shot last can be the first scene ect ( Non linear...tape itself is linear but once you get its footage to a PC it is more than likely "split up into scenes" which you can then manipulate in any order you wish)

Windows Movie Maker is a "free" taster to video editing. There are far better paid for programs which will enable you do more , and get better quality output if you wish to learn thier use

byelawman · 28-11-2007, 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by senu

Windows Movie Maker is a "free" taster to video editing. There are far better paid for programs which will enable you do more , and get better quality output if you wish to learn thier use

Im very interested in the better programs, what would you suggest?

a bit of what I do might help you to make a suggestion.

I video rally cars at their best, in the forest and on tarmac

I will prob have anywhere from 40-90 mins of footage for any 1 rally, I come home and download to my pc, then edit it the best I can, and then try to sell to competitors, so I m always looking to make the DVD interesting with still shots and a bit of slow motion action, dont know if that makes any difference to the software I need! Im hoping you can tell me what to use?

depens on budget (the wife

) but Im looking at either the

Canon HV20 or Panasonic NV-GS 320

cheers

**senu** · 28-11-2007, 9:40 PM

The Favourites are
Pinnacle Studio 11 Easy to use, had a reputation for instability but that seem to be no more
Adobe Premiere Elements;( 3 and 4) had a bit of a learning curve but quite capable and simple .Can be a bit unhappy in modest systems
Ulead video Studio 11: Very newbee friendly. Can be hand holding to an annoying degree ( for some who need more manual control) but very richly featured
Sony Vegas Movie studio 8
Very nice to use.. Somewhat off putting GUI to start with
There is Software from Magix and Cyberlink as well as Roxio which Im less familiar with

They all have their friends ..

And all have a bit of a learning curve. ( there is no shortage of advice here and onlineespecally user forums)
They can all do what you wish with your Rally footage
and
All have download trial versions

Oh.. if you can afford it, the HV20 is most definitely the better camcorder for a no of reasons

felix2 · 29-11-2007, 8:36 AM

If you like the look of Sony Vegas Movie Studio, you might possibly want to consider Serif MoviePlus (which Senu didn't mention this time!). Very similar, although a handful fewer features, but I think slightly easier to use. But if you wanted to do lots of multiple Picture in Picture effects (e.g. 4 or 5 or more videos + titles etc on the screen at a time), Serif does offer unlimited tracks, compared with Vegas MS's 4. However, if you're going for the HV20, the current version (5) doesn't output HDV after editing - a new version with much better HD support & lots of other stuff is overdue and promised some time in the new year (I hope)...

Also, I take it you're not rigging up your camera in-car at all, as I've heard the HV20 might struggle with that. Otherwise, although the GS320 is a very nice cam by all accounts, if you can afford it, you're unlikely to regret going to the HV20.

byelawman · 29-11-2007, 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix2

Also, I take it you're not rigging up your camera in-car at all, as I've heard the HV20 might struggle with that. Otherwise, although the GS320 is a very nice cam by all accounts, if you can afford it, you're unlikely to regret going to the HV20.

no its not going in-car

was at Currys today and the guy said if I dont want hard drive what about the Panasonic HDC-SD5EG? is this as easy to edit as Mini DV?

my head is wasted

**senu** · 29-11-2007, 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byelawman

no its not going in-car

was at Currys today and the guy said if I dont want hard drive what about the Panasonic HDC-SD5EG? is this as easy to edit as Mini DV?

my head is wasted

No it isnt

. It is AVCHD , editable on fairly powerful PCs and on with a few software titles for now

byelawman · 29-11-2007, 6:17 PM

a HUGE thank you to all for your input

my head is well and truly up my arse

If the cash will allow, its the Canon HV20, if not its the Panasonic NV-GS320

rhubarbe · 29-11-2007, 8:19 PM

If you can't afford the HV20 you could do worse than look at the HV10. I have one. It's not half bad.

theo cupier · 05-12-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

If you can't afford the HV20 you could do worse than look at the HV10. I have one. It's not half bad.

Guilty of more gravedigging, I'm afraid...

What are the key differences between the HV10. It's nice to see that the "old" models aren't being automatically discarded as soon as the new, HV20 came along.

However, since there's about £200ish difference between the two, what will I lose by going for an HV10?

redsox_mark · 05-12-2007, 12:09 PM

The price difference is down to the HV20 being newer and getting such rave reviews more than anything... but there are at least 3 key differences:

1. HV10 doesn't have HDMI, HV20 does.
2. HV10 doesn't have progressive mode, HV20 does.
3. HV10 is a different shape (upright)... that can be a pro or con depending on your preference.

rhubarbe · 05-12-2007, 1:51 PM

You can buy a YUV to HDMI converter for thirty quid.
I like the upright format better than the handycam format.
I think that the HV10 is better build quality.
HV10 fits in my pocket.
Don't listen to me though, I am biased!

Kahayes · 05-12-2007, 5:27 PM

Where can the DV10 be had for £200 less than the DV20? I've looked for them both and they both are coming out at c.£550 cheapest.

Any recommendations of good suppliers?

rhubarbe · 05-12-2007, 8:43 PM

HV, not DV. I know. I had a look the other day and the HV10 is now no cheaper than the HV20.

Maybe others are beginning to agree with me about it.

theo cupier · 05-12-2007, 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

The price difference is down to the HV20 being newer and getting such rave reviews more than anything... but there are at least 3 key differences:

1. HV10 doesn't have HDMI, HV20 does.
2. HV10 doesn't have progressive mode, HV20 does.
3. HV10 is a different shape (upright)... that can be a pro or con depending on your preference.

So not a lot in terms of the end result then...

Just a question of deciding between this and the HC3, I think. Ugh.

**senu** · 05-12-2007, 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theo cupier

So not a lot in terms of the end result then...

Just a question of deciding between this and the HC3, I think. Ugh.

No the HV10 has a bit more going for it..IMHO
The HC3 has been "superceeded" by HC5 and HC7

redsox_mark · 05-12-2007, 9:24 PM

Actually I noticed the HV10 is no longer showing as a current model on the Canon UK web site, so you could say it was replaced too.

The HC3 and HV10 are almost identical in terms of performance, Camcorderinfo gave the HC3 the edge in their ratings.

theo cupier · 06-12-2007, 3:40 PM

I've been reading the Camcorderinfo reviews of the HC3 and HV10. It seems that one of the main things that differentiates the two cameras is the performance at low light levels (at which the HC3 is best).

Can anyone translate what 60 lux means in the real world?

If I anticipate recording quite a bit of artificially lit interior scenes (whether it be family gatherings or school plays) is this going to be down at the 60 lux level at which the HV10 struggles? Or is 60 lux lower than I am likely to regularly go?

rhubarbe · 06-12-2007, 8:33 PM

From my experience with the HC1 and the HV10 I think (and this is just li'l ole me) that the image stabilisation is better on the Canon.

Don't forget that CCI are reviewing US cams that shoot in 1/60th of a sec, and our PAL sams shoot in 1/50th, so ours will let in more light...

redsox_mark · 06-12-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theo cupier

Can anyone translate what 60 lux means in the real world?

According to this study, the average Australian sitting room is 50 lux
http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/local/s....html#lighting

My own experience (with an HC1, which is similar but not quite as good in low light as the HC3) is if I shoot in the house, if the subject is near a light source it is OK, otherwise it will be grainy without an video light. School plays come out fine with the stage lighting (at least at my children's school).